DNA Blood Test ?

[VanHook]

Hello - I would like request some feedback. I have a question about testing for a "true" Presa Canario. From my readings - There is no set DNA pattern as of recent but the "WisdomPanel" states there is. Can anyone clarify this?
Thanks in advance.

[Zhenya]

form the Wisdom Panel website on Presa Canario

http://www.wisdompanel.com/breedinfo/large/presacanario.html

"...By the 1960’s, this breed was facing extinction as a result of the outlawing of dog fighting and the introduction of popular foreign dog breeds such as the German Shepherd Dog, Doberman Pinscher and Great Dane. The breed’s revival was the result of the work of an American vet called Dr Carl Semencie. The breed is a member of the American Kennel Club Foundation Stock Service."

They must have taken them DNA swabs for sampling off of the "Semencie" presas. ROFLMAO!! They can't even spell the name of the person that had nothing to do with presas right. I wouldn't count on their DNA analysis too much :) :)

[DanUK47]

And nor was he a Vet, his doctorate was in something like Social Anthropology if I recall correctly. Nothing wrong with that, just not a vet :D

[VanHook]

Thanks for the input so far - I thought that I might add some more food for thought. I'm just trying to get my history straight before I get any blood work tested. I just bought a 3 month old Presa Canario: No papers just a private pet for me - I always enjoyed mysteries - Science can stimulate the mind like nothing else. :rolleyes:

I guess what I'm asking is "what percentages of mixes are accepted" as Presa Canario? I'm new to this breed and I love the "Spanish" version. The "American" version looks like a muscle bound pitbull. These are my opinions - Please no offense to anyone. On the Wisdom page - There are two types of tests : Swab vs Blood. Is one more accurate? Is there a different preferred method? The part that gets me - No other "DNA" test kit that I looked at would offer a "Presa Canario profile". Wisdom states that they cannot give percentages of correct readings until a "outside registry" states a guideline - But the history of your dog's genetics would help in any case of forecasting a dogs health - mixed or purebred. The blood test is more intensive, but Is there a better test? Even the AKC as follows leaves a wide area of discussion. I know that at this time there is no real answer to this question but I love stuff like this.
http://www.akc.org/breeds/perro_de_presa_canario/history.cfm
"There are several theories regarding the genetic contributions to the creation of the Presa Canario. It is almost certain that the cattle dog, the Iberian Presa (Perro de Ganado Majorero) provided a start to the founding of the Canary Presa. The Ganado was a mastiff type of average size, rustic, intelligent with an intuitive instinct, a fearless guardian. Several other Hispanic breeds contributed to the Presas formation, especially the Presa Espanol in its large varieties and the bulldog varieties (Alano), known for its clutching instincts. In time the island dogs developed into a completely differentiated breed due to the influence of the Spanish breeds. Around the XVIII century, the English colonists, traders and merchants brought their Bandogges and Tiedogs - predecessors of the Bulldogs and Mastiffs - to the Canary Islands. Shortly thereafter, the English introduced their gladiator breeds (Bulldogs and Bull/Terriers) and began crossbreeding with the then existent "Perro de Presa" of the Canary Archipelago. To what degree did each of these introduced breeds contribute genetically to the overall development of the Presa Canario remains unanswerable.
The final ingredient that completes the foundation of the Presa Canario was the genetic infusion of the Bardino Majorero, a pre-Hispanic sheepdog originating on the Island of Fuerteventura. This dog was introduced for its intelligence, physical resistance, offering of excellent guardian instincts with little bark, extraordinary set of teeth and incorruptible courage. The combination of known holding dogs, holding dogs of the continent and the Bardino Majorero, started a new grouping of holding dogs. New to the traditional functions of guarding and catching livestock was added a new function, the fight."
"Full recovery of the Presa Canario heritage started in the year 1982, when a group of breeders from the island of Tenerife formed an association with the goal to propagate the resurgence of the Presa Canario as started in the previous decades. The Club Espanol de Presa Canario ( CEPRC ) was formed incorporating breeders from Gran Canaria, Lanzarote, Fuerteventura and La Palma. In January 1983, the club was recognized by the REAL CANINE SOCIETY CENTRAL of SPAIN (RSCFRCE). This club's efforts and successes were duly instrumental in bringing forth the many new "Champions of Breed" as judged at the ongoing annual Monographic events, held in the islands and mainland. And now, a renewed interest in the breed has extended into the European continent and the Americas."

[Zhenya]

At school our prof said that the whole identify your breed for eighty bucks business is a sham and I was under a strong impression that it was not actually possible. So I looked a little bit more at it and turns out I was wrong. The whole search led me to the article in Science by H.G. Parker (2004) and this article is then heavily cited in various reviews on the subject. Turns out some people can (whether or not the WisdomPannel does it honestly or not i don't know).

So what they did is to map the SNP (whatever :) ) markers of 85 AKC registered (or FSS registered) breeds using the AKC data and AKC definition of the breeds (the whole other story). They performed their statistical analysis hoopla and claimed that they could identify reversely 99% of the breeds, i.e., ALL individuals marked as belonging to a certain breed in the sample distinctly clustered together based on their DNA profile.

HOWEVER 99% is not 100% so (see att. 1). Moreover see att. 2. :) So I think your chances of getting it right with this breed are pretty much nil unless you are really want to embarrass your breeder :)

[VanHook]

Thanks for the update! - I'll look up the article for more reading. I'm only doing this for myself - Not questioning the Breeders statement. Great photo album - Lots of great pics and vids!
:eek:But now I know - He's really a Chihuahua in disguise! I should have known - He loves Taco Bell! :rolleyes: LOL

[Drazhar]

At school our prof said that the whole identify your breed for eighty bucks business is a sham and I was under a strong impression that it was not actually possible. So I looked a little bit more at it and turns out I was wrong. The whole search led me to the article in Science by H.G. Parker (2004) and this article is then heavily cited in various reviews on the subject. Turns out some people can (whether or not the WisdomPannel does it honestly or not i don't know).

So what they did is to map the SNP (whatever :) ) markers of 85 AKC registered (or FSS registered) breeds using the AKC data and AKC definition of the breeds (the whole other story). They performed their statistical analysis hoopla and claimed that they could identify reversely 99% of the breeds, i.e., ALL individuals marked as belonging to a certain breed in the sample distinctly clustered together based on their DNA profile.

HOWEVER 99% is not 100% so (see att. 1). Moreover see att. 2. :) So I think your chances of getting it right with this breed are pretty much nil unless you are really want to embarrass your breeder :)


this is what i tell everyone.. i read this artical long ago, it was a follow up from a dog bite ..

[Cathy]

If anyone wants a DNA profile to NOT show they have a Presa (for insurance purposes?) should get a DNA.....all sorts of mixes show up and that has been beneficial for people in the Florida and other areas because they do not show Presa!!

[Zhenya]

If anyone wants a DNA profile to NOT show they have a Presa (for insurance purposes?) should get a DNA.....all sorts of mixes show up and that has been beneficial for people in the Florida and other areas because they do not show Presa!!

Simply brilliant!!! :) :)

[curtis]

No officer, this isn't a presa. It's a genuine chihuahua/beagle/lab/greyhound mix. See, that's what it says right here....:D

[alphonse]

I noticed that they offer DNA & paternity testing too. From what I remember it was pricey but if you have access to the child you might be able to get the test done yourself pretty quickly. The explanation of DNA testing that follows is intended as an introduction to the subject for those who may have limited backgrounds in biological science. While basically accurate, this explanation involves liberal use of illustration and, in some cases, over-simplification.

[riotgrrrl01]

If anyone wants a DNA profile to NOT show they have a Presa (for insurance purposes?) should get a DNA.....all sorts of mixes show up and that has been beneficial for people in the Florida and other areas because they do not show Presa!!

Honestly in the US I think the dna test would help most pits, rotts, and dobies out too. They are all so horribly bred anymore.
You would not believe how many dogs are incorrectly called a certain breed...dont believe me go to a shelter and see how many labx's there are. you would think labs, chows, and shepards were the only dog breeds in a shelter.

[rambo101]

do u know breeders in the canary islands that you know of that breed good presa canarios? i dont know any other then irema curto kennels.. i cant anwser your question , u were the most recent post on this forum. thanks.

[mitchaldavis]

Deoxyribonucleic acid or DNA is a nucleic acid that contains the genetic instructions used in the development and functioning of all known living organisms, with the exception of some viruses. The main role of DNA molecules is the long-term storage of information. A blood test is a laboratory test performed on a blood sample is usually drawn from a vein in the arm with a needle or through a fingertip.

Blood tests are used to determine the biochemical and physiological states, such as disease, mineral content, drug efficacy, and organ function.

[stevebucknor1]

There are two types of tests : Swab vs Blood. The explanation of DNA testing that follows is intended as an introduction to the subject for those who may have limited backgrounds in biological science. It is really very important to know.