One pup

[SteelFistVelvetGlove]

https://home.comcast.net/~dhe777//APup.JPG

[kaka]

iv always thought that your not supposed to condition dogs at that age ;)lol ha,ha,ha,ha,,lovely pup

[reds]

i love this lil guy:D

[SteelFistVelvetGlove]

Actually I think it is one is one of the girls. Had 3 males and 3 females make it through the nature gauntlet. 1 male without a mask of any note, 1 female without a mask of any note. 4 with rather good masks. The female with a weak mask is actually my favorite along with the little red male.

[DanUK47]

That looks like a nice pup.

[sati5k]

Pup looks nice :)


Sati5k

[presagirls]

Why the mystery about who the parents are?? Is this your litter Dennis?

[Kiroman]

exactly, what a joke...

[SteelFistVelvetGlove]

I love mysteries, some non-fiction, some autobiographies, select Science Fiction.... Don't you?

Thanks for reminding us that we need to read more and watch less television. Your very thoughtful.

To my friends in PM land :D:D:D.

To keep on topic? "How does she look PresaGirls and Kiroman? :)

[Kiroman]

Look like a pup that came from a litter that "supposedly" had some pre-req's before it was to happen...but I am sure there is an excuse for that too...

[SteelFistVelvetGlove]

https://home.comcast.net/~dhe777//P81.jpg


https://home.comcast.net/~dhe777//P82.jpg

https://home.comcast.net/~dhe777//P83.jpg

https://home.comcast.net/~dhe777//P84.jpg


https://home.comcast.net/~dhe777//P85.jpg

[SteelFistVelvetGlove]

https://home.comcast.net/~dhe777//P8a.jpg

https://home.comcast.net/~dhe777//P8b.jpg

https://home.comcast.net/~dhe777//P8c.jpg

https://home.comcast.net/~dhe777//P8aa.jpg
(https://home.comcast.net/~dhe777//APup.JPG)

[sati5k]

COOL:D Does this mean we,ve started a pic war!!!!:D

Nice pups how old are they in pics?

Sati 5k

[SteelFistVelvetGlove]

Make Pic Love not Pic War.... :p

8 Weeks today.

Games on!!!! ;)

[Kiroman]

wrong spot

[Paolo Consolandi]

@ Dennis, pls do not open new threads when you can sum them up in the same one, as they have the same topic

@ Kiroman
pls do not start the polemics, you can just ask for the parents

[Virtues]

Holy cow, I want one of those puppies. So adorable! I like the one with the dark mask that extends back behind the eyes. The little rag bite was cute. (Fully aware "cute" and "adorable" isn't what you're going for ;))

[slamm]

I've been busy and haven't been on the board or paying attention to your posts for awhile who are these pups and who are the parents? Are they your's Dennis?

Are they the Combe's pups?

Is this a guessing game? If so are there any prizes.

Sam

[surfnplay12]

I can tell just by looking at them were they come from:D Sam look close at the pics and tell me if you dont see a mini ZONA? Its just the head but it looks like a dead ringer. By looking at the Bone on a couple of those pups I have a pretty good idea who the father is and the color of the pups tells the whole story but I don't want to spoil it. Good looking pups for sure.

[Kiroman]

@ Kiroman
pls do not start the polemics, you can just ask for the parents

I did and it was ignored, as did other members of the community and they too were ignored...

[george]

nice pups!!hope they become very good!!what's their taperament Dennis??is it as good as they look?? ;)

[J@ckson]

Ha!!! They're not even titled!! Where are the X-Ray results??? No shutz 1 or 2???? BAH, what a joke.

[SteelFistVelvetGlove]

George, they are decent I think. Ill have to post some video of the "puppy work"

Well darn it. I have to salute Casey for approaching things with intelligence.dam. he has made me have to compliment a lawyer wannbe... ;) and almost everyone for intelligent and gracious comments, with no agenda or edge, without the ignoring of some recent posts.

I have given enough hints! and to a few people who have asked graciously in PM, there is not much of a mystery..

Mini Zona looks like she is going to be an idiot and a royal pain in the ass right now, things can change with puppies,so we will see. She may be the sort of royal pain in the ass that working people love, or she may be a paper tiger, time will tell Meanwhile Im trying to decide whether to keep 2 or not, wanted the opportunity to train one right from the begninnig and use what I have learned up until this point. Not start very late and do better than I have done with Elijah.


Thanks,


I can tell just by looking at them were they come from:D Sam look close at the pics and tell me if you dont see a mini ZONA? Its just the head but it looks like a dead ringer. By looking at the Bone on a couple of those pups I have a pretty good idea who the father is and the color of the pups tells the whole story but I don't want to spoil it. Good looking pups for sure.



VirtuesHoly cow, I want one of those puppies. So adorable! I like the one with the dark mask that extends back behind the eyes. The little rag bite was cute. (Fully aware "cute" and "adorable" isn't what you're going for ;))


COOL:D Does this mean we,ve started a pic war!!!!:D

Nice pups how old are they in pics?

Sati 5k



Nice, nice, nice!!!

although its just a test....:p


nice pup!
more info?


nice camo on him, give us some details age, parents, future.

[SteelFistVelvetGlove]

Action Jackson are you and Kiroman buddies?

Ha!!! They're not even titled!! Where are the X-Ray results??? No shutz 1 or 2???? BAH, what a joke.

A bit inaccurate on the x-rays (both parents pennhipped) by the way and I dont train shutzhund, but I may consider it in the future. :D

[J@ckson]

Action Jackson are you and Kiroman buddies?

.

A bit inaccurate by the way and I dont train shutzhund, but I may consider it in the future. :DThat's a neat trick.

[SteelFistVelvetGlove]

VirtuesHoly cow, I want one of those puppies. So adorable! I like the one with the dark mask that extends back behind the eyes. The little rag bite was cute. (Fully aware "cute" and "adorable" isn't what you're going for ;))


Yep.. How is your crew doing Virtues? Well I hope.

[SteelFistVelvetGlove]

nice pups!!hope they become very good!!what's their taperament Dennis??is it as good as they look??


Puppies are puppies we will see what is and what isnt. No shy ones etc, so no extreme issues.

[Virtues]

Doing great, Dennis, thanks for asking. I'm talking with someone now about a pup next spring/summer. Can't wait. Anyway, I'm looking forward to seeing your pups' progress and updates. Keep us posted.

[presagirls]

So Dennis are the pups out of Audaz and Elijah?? Aren't they both sired by Sancho.....just curious as it appears to be a guessing game. You got rid of Mila I thought so isn't Audaz your only female?

[Kiroman]

Is line breeding a bad thing? Thoughts?

[SteelFistVelvetGlove]

Simply "Google" "Line Breeding Dogs" Plenty of information.
Here is one link and a quote, quote is below the link.

Line breeding like any other breeding can be good or bad. It is not uncommon for professional, ethical Kennels to have set backs even and have to start from scratch in thier attempts for their goals.

Line breeding can be Good or Bad.. Believe you have to go by the results, as they say "The Proof is in the Pudding" The results Im fairly satisfied with my pudding from what I see so far.

http://www.rhiannon-cavaliers.com/linebreeding.htm

There seems to be a vast misunderstanding about line breeding, what it is, why it is done and how it is done. Often one hears laymen and even some who should know better referring to it in derogatory terms and making the assumption that linebreeding is responsible for canine health and temperament problems. So in this article I hope to try to explain a little what responsible and knowledgeable breeders try to do in their breeding programs.

First let me be clear anything said in this article refers to reputable breeders who breed to develop dogs who are the best examples of breed type (what a certain breed should look like according to the breed's standard or blueprint) and are of sound mind and body. It does not refer to puppy mill or back yard breeders as the sole purpose of those sorts of breeders are to supply the most puppies as cheaply as possible for the most profit. Considerations such as breed type, health and temperament are of no interest to these people and any linebreeding or inbreeding done by them is merely happenstance and economically advantageous.

[presagirls]

There is a difference of line-breeding and in-breeding; I think your litter is in breeding???

In-breeding - This is the breeding of closely related animals. Brother-Sister, Parent-Offspring, ½ brother - ½ Sister.

Line-breeding - This is the breeding of animals that share common ancestors but are not closely related. For example the dogs may share a common great-grandparent

[SteelFistVelvetGlove]

Yes, I know the difference.
I wouldn't worry about it if I were you. I simply answered the question "I s line breeding good or bad thing?"

[slamm]

Is line breeding a bad thing? Thoughts?
"Proper" and knowledgeable line breeding and in-breeding are ways to improve consistency and "sharpen" smaller details of a line of dogs/animals.

In and of itself, line and in breeding's are tools and if used properly it can be great and if used incorrectly can be bad.

Overall it is only as good as the stock put into it and their strengths and weaknesses. More or less it is a tool.

A good tool/wrech can can turn a nut/bolt on a crappy car and a luxury car the same, but they can't overall change the quality of the car, with out many other tools (and effort) to help ..... that is where culling comes into play.

In breeding and Line breeding along with culling are the ultimate dog makers, IF you know what you are doing. If you don't know what you are doing then you are just making puppies with locked in traits good or bad, which isn't any better than cross breeding or loose breeding dogs.

My opinion,

Sam

[SteelFistVelvetGlove]

From everything I have read, Sam is right, and everyone with experience does advocate culling. I would cull a weak physical specimen or one that evidences shyness.

What would be peoples perspectives on what to do with "severe faults" according to the standard, assuming a healthy dog with above average "temperament" i.e. no mask? Would cull? Would you neuter and place?

[Detroit Red]

From everything I have read, Sam is right, and everyone with experience does advocate culling. I would cull a weak physical specimen or one that evidences shyness.

What would be peoples perspectives on what to do with "severe faults" according to the standard, assuming a healthy dog with above average "temperament" i.e. no mask? Would cull? Would you neuter and place?

Mask doesn't mean anything thing, expect they won't win beauty show's. I'll take that or a dog with white marking's over a mentally/physically weak pup any day. I think you know what you want in your presa's and that's all that matter's on top of it you hip tested a whole litter and more than likely continue the trend.

[SteelFistVelvetGlove]

Yes, Greg , you are right, I know what I want, just curious other peoples perspectives.

What about you Presagirls? Would you cull, or neuter and place in a pet home, if the dog had the temperament would you keep it and train it?

[eSPO]

I have always been a proponent of line breeding and inbreeding by experienced breeders of the Presa Canario. The Presa is not a dog like the GSD, or Dachshund. They have not been "purebred" for many, many generations. There is still enough diversity in the blood that the reward far outweighs the risk. The reason many breeders ,that had promise, failed to live up to what they acquired from some one else, is that they did not know any better.

[presagirls]

Dennis, since you asked my opinion....

"What about you Presagirls? Would you cull, or neuter and place in a pet home, if the dog had the temperament would you keep it and train it?"

First of all I would ask you what made you decide to breed Audaz.....what qualities make her breeding quality/type or temperament; also Emiliano? Especially since it was you who said any breedings would be from titled/tested dogs???

From what I have seen most all puppies will bite whatever is moving in front of them......time will tell which ones will take the pressure. That is why I feel it is important to see what the parents "have" to contribute to temperament of the pups.....let's not forget that grandparents and other relatives can play heavily into the temperament equation.
http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47b6d834b3127ccece0a4b56838f00000010O08AZuWzdy1bNg e3nwA/cC/f%3D0/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D550/ry%3D400/