hello from cindy in Canada [Archive]

Darianna

27th September 2008, 05:26

SteelFistVelvetGlove

27th September 2008, 14:38

I wish you luck and healthy pups and a partidge in a pear tree.

Cinbird

2nd October 2008, 21:35

My male is UKC registered, his father is Magnum and mother Barna.
My female, she's papered but I can't get them from the previous owner. Any ideas of how I can get her papered?

Juan00

2nd October 2008, 22:00

Cindy,

Out of curiosity, why are you going to breed your two Presas? Is it simply because you have a male and female, or do you have other reasons and or motivations behind it? I'm just curious....

Detroit Red

2nd October 2008, 22:10

ISAPRESA

3rd October 2008, 04:19

hey cindy, what breeder did you get your female from ?

Cinbird

5th October 2008, 01:44

The breeder lives in Vancouver but is from the states. He breeds blue nose pitbulls, but on occasion he breeds Presa's with a breeder from Spain. He listed a litter 2 years ago which is how I came upon my female. I was not buying her for breeding or papers I fell in love with her as soon as I met her and new she was my girl. My female Husky in the picture is an old soul and we live on a acreage so we decided to find a dog that would have the characteristics of protecting the home, loyaltly and companionship.

Cinbird

5th October 2008, 01:53

You may be screwed on the the papers unless you have a contract stating you were to receive them upon paying the dog off. And that still may not produce papers. Is it a known breeder or someone that just put two dogs together?

The papers are in spain , he doesn't have them to my knowledge. He is a breeder of pitbulls and on occasion will breed presa's. She is not a mix, she is a purebreed as I have seen his dogs and litters. I later asked for them and he said the probability of getting the papers whould be slim and or costly. I truly believe theres no papers I was just hoping I could register her some other way as I have my males papers. Now can I register the litter?

Cinbird

5th October 2008, 02:43

Cindy,

Out of curiosity, why are you going to breed your two Presas? Is it simply because you have a male and female, or do you have other reasons and or motivations behind it? I'm just curious....

Hi, I am breeding because my family, my son and 3 cousins are wanting a pup from my pair. We will also be keeping a male and female from the litter. I'm not breeding to sell for money that is not my intention at all. Once my female has her litter I will have her fixed. She has had two false pregnancies and pyrometra is a risk If I don't breed her she will be fixed this spring either way. My male I will stud, he is too cool and his persoanlity is charming and macho. I have already had two interests for him so we'll see if that happens or not.

Cinbird

5th October 2008, 02:59

just curious...how did you decide at the age of a year that your dog is an ideal breeding canditate?

Given that your male and my male (and my aunt's dogo) share a sire, I am offering you some advice...please xray his joints (hips, knees and elbows) at 2 years of age before you do something irresponsible, like I dunno breed a young male with developing joints :rolleyes:. i did (xrayed)...and I had no breeding intensions, just lots of curiousity as to what cards I've been dealt...and my results you can find on the other board (i'm not going to regurgitate the whole story again)...

No decision was made. When I purchased my female, we had 3 other dogs. Male Alaskin Malamute which he passed away last year, female Siberian husky and we took on a Boxer Sheppard (f) when we bought our acreage. The bOxer is gone to another home as of this summer due to her attacking our senior female husky and almost killing her twice. She just didn't fit our family and was a risk to all the dogs. She needed a home that would tend to her abilities of search and rescue. We didn't meet her needs and found her a better home and the safety for all the dogs. When our male Malamute passed away we decided to get another Presa, male who could tend to the farm and keep the wild animals at bay. We own a campground so the risk of bears cruising the property is prevalent. The two Presa's are mates and with my kids and family/ friends interested in the breed I have decided for one litter which we will keep two out of the litter as well. I love this breed.

presagirls

5th October 2008, 05:38

"I am offering you some advice...please xray his joints (hips, knees and elbows) at 2 years of age before you do something irresponsible"

I second this recommendation!!!!! before you decide to do any breeding....please take that advice!

Darianna

5th October 2008, 14:00

Hi, I am breeding because my family, my son and 3 cousins are wanting a pup from my pair. We will also be keeping a male and female from the litter. I'm not breeding to sell for money that is not my intention at all. Once my female has her litter I will have her fixed.

If I got a nickel everytime I heard that...that's not a good enough reason to breed your dogs! And you most likely will not stop after the first breeding..that's usually how the story goes...that's how "byb (back-yard breeder)" operations get started in the first place!

My male I will stud, he is too cool and his persoanlity is charming and macho. :eek:

You completely avoided my questions about hips,... is it somehow justified that because this is a one-time only (rush order) breeding you don't have to do the right thing (xray joints)?:confused:

SteelFistVelvetGlove

5th October 2008, 14:13

We should be so regulatory in human breeding. Wonder how many people had their hips and elbows x-rayed, an intelligence test, an emotional maturity test, a financial competency and stability test before they bred?

Funny how we put more criteria on dog breeding than human breeding. So what we basically saying is that we do not want to breed physically substandard, unhealthy, poor temperament dogs, but its ok to breed a lot of idiot human beings with various genetic physical and emotional afflictions.

If there was it might help Of course, grass fed livestock in the quantity that America needs it is totally unviable and so what I just wrote is irrelevant to reality. But if there weren't so many people...

The big problem with this kind of breeding is that brothers, cousins, friends will have a dog that they end up wanting to breed for the same reaons, and on it goes..............

Detroit Red

5th October 2008, 15:04

At the very least since you plan on going through with breeding these dogs anyway get the pups fixed. You say the pups are for relatives, so papers should not be of concern. Also a dog that acts macho doesn't make him that.

presasrus

5th October 2008, 19:18

"We should be so regulatory in human breeding. Wonder how many people had their hips and elbows x-rayed, an intelligence test, an emotional maturity test, a financial competency and stability test before they bred?"

SFVG - Actually my ex wife's parents had me submit to all this...:)

SteelFistVelvetGlove

5th October 2008, 19:54

SFVG - Actually my ex wife's parents had me submit to all this...:)~wise, smart parents!!~ you passed? You must have used someone else's urine sample!!!:D...........just teasing you dude...

presasrus

5th October 2008, 20:26

I passed, and to make matters worse her father held a high position at Lockheed...need I say more? LOL Quite a ride there let me tell you...

LawrenceandHaney

6th October 2008, 04:58

Listen to the advice here.

Although some on this board may come across the wrong way, most in general have the Presa and the breed in mind. Breeding 2 dogs may seem logical and simple, even a great way to allow extended members of your family to enjoy this great breed.

The problem here as I and some other see it is this:
You know little of the parents
You have not xrayed your dogs
You know little or nothing of the ancestry of these dogs (did they fight, work, both, were previous litters culled?)
Besides what you keep where will these dogs go?
You state your dogs have quality balanced personalities ...what if their offspring do not? Have you ever had to fight off a full grown Presa? Imagine a child or less experienced owner challenged with this

It is easy to want to breed but consider the potential consequences very carefully.

It is my greatest wish that you will not. Second, for those in your family or any acquaintances you meet that you will recommend they seek a quality breeder who will find the right dog for the right situation.

It only takes one bad dog to cause irreputible damage to a breed. That will be 100% your fault should said dog be a result of an ill advised and ill-planned breeding.

This is my opinion. I share it with kind intend and respectfully. Think long and hard please.

Lawrence

SteelFistVelvetGlove

6th October 2008, 04:59

her father held a high position at Lockheed.

ex-military too?

presasrus

6th October 2008, 18:26

Cinbird - My apologies for getting a bit OT on your thread up there. Think of it this way, there is no race here. What's a year to wait on tests? That's no time at all, and passes quick. Who knows, in that time, your relatives may have changed life circumstances, etc., and may not be able to have a dog/add another dog from your litter, much less one of this magnitude. If, after the fact, say your relatives have to give up the pup/dog for whatever reason, then what? Will you/could you feasibly take it back? What if you jump the gun on these tests, and the pups to your relatives turn out unhealthy/very costly to manage medically, mind you after they have long since emotionally bonded?

SFVG - On military, I'm not sure but I know he has been an engineer/project lead in corporate for decades and can't tell even his wife what he does.

Cinbird

9th October 2008, 06:10

My presa's will go in for a hip xray as they are due for a vet check next month. I will request one as per advised.
But I am sad to hear the negative force of words towards me expecially to be judged as I am new to the board and not well known amongst the members.
Advice is much better welcomed than to be told or insinuated that I will become a back yard puppy mill. Like whats with that? Anyways, I thought to join a board for friendship with people who share the same interests as me and to learn and enjoy this wonderful breed. If I have affended anyone I am sorry.

presasrus

9th October 2008, 11:53

Cinbird - Not at all, would you respect it more if we all chimed in and said oh yeah go for it, all the way, with no hesitation or mention of some of these considerations? Sharing this info is caring, for you, your dogs, your relatives, and the breed, and besides that, these are all legitimate concerns. You came for good advice, right? Bear in mind that anyone on here advocating hip scores, etc., has probably either been burned personally, or heard countless tales of how people emotionally bond with a dog, only to have a dog that can barely walk at say one year. That happened to my friend with a shepherd, at seven months, by the way. We don't want you to go through this, potentially. Don't take it personal, as judging you harshly. The point is you haven't done it...yet...which is why some of these voices are ringing through now to be heard, as prevention, for you. Again, we could shut up and just let you do this, is that caring? Another time, another story but I get bitched at all the time for having two intact males and was told it was almost impossible to do. For them maybe, not for me. And you're right, this is a stupid box called a computer with a vehicle inside called the Internet, and it's easy to type and not know the recipient personally, agreed. Nonetheless, people take the time to type because they want you to succeed. You're right, you are new to the board, and notwithstanding that, you have been given good advice. I'd say people are looking out for you, my interpretation anyway...

Darianna

9th October 2008, 12:40

Cinbird, let me clarify myself, maybe that'll help you understand why my posts are so-emotionally charged.

My dog (that shares a sire with your male) has hip dysplaysia. At 12 months, I gave him preliminary x-rays to just see how his hips were developing...they looked excellent. At 2 years, his hip results came back not so good - mild hip dysplaysia. My aun'ts dog (also shares a sire with your male) has severe hip dysplaysia and patellar luxation - all things discovered before the age of 13 months.

I am by no means insuiating that your dogs have hip dysplaysia, but what I am saying is that your x-ray results, if and when you xray now may be premature (for the male...because your dog hasn't fully developed joint-wise) and you need to consider that before you breed. Regardless of the fact that your dogs will be placed in loving homes, you should at minimum know that these people will be getting a healthy dog- and you've dog your part as the breeder to at least ensure that two healthy dogs have been bred.

I never implied you were a puppy byb, just said that it's breeding reasons like yours that seem to start a cycle of pups being produced in this fashion...which really doesn't do any good for any breed....let alone the dogs produced.

My belief is that you are going about things irresponsibly... especially given what I know about the dogs produced out of your male's sire (which happen to be 2 dogs that I have...), what I would do is wait and do things properly....Reading your post made me think one thing...what if I did that (breed my male at 12 months...things were looking great back then..which i would never do - by the way)...how awful would I feel about bringing pups into this world knowing now that the sire a year later is dysplastic....

SteelFistVelvetGlove

9th October 2008, 13:46

Is pennhip available in Canada? Where did all these dogs come from?

That's a sad story and in this case I wouild have to ask how the breeder is that is/has bred the sire of all these dogs. Is irresponsible. Doubt Ill
get an answer if it is one of the "beloved" big time, charge way to much
money for a dog breeders.

Darianna

9th October 2008, 14:53

yes, Pennhip is available. I submitted his hip xrays to OFA, because I was already x-raying my dog for a knee concern (which hapenned to be 2 days after he turned 2) ... I just took the opportunity to have his hips checked again....to see how they turned out.

my dog and my aunt's dog are out of separate breedings. just a point.

I won't get into my issue any further...unfortuntaly, I do feel as if I have to watch what I say about my situation...I don't want the breeder to think i'm bashing him again....

SteelFistVelvetGlove

9th October 2008, 15:45

Breeder should be held accountable. But since you say "bashing again" . I imagine I could find out, but I see you have posted nothing about the breeder on this board.

Ill never understand people's loyality to a breeder that has done such things. You being in Canada I could take a guess.

So leaving the breeder anonymous, What is the breeders reaction when confronted with these issues? multiple dogs with hip dysplasia?
What does the breeder have to say for themself?

Darianna

9th October 2008, 16:16

You can easily read my posts on the other forum (name is the same). The mere fact that I posted my dog's results on a public forum, and expressed how upset I was, that's what was considered bashing...no insults of character, or kennel bashing...

There is no loyalty here, just the fact that I am waiting for the breeder to honour the warranty on both dogs (the dogs aren't being given back just to add). I have no issues with the guy, in fact he's a cool guy to talk to...very nice...but this situation and my posting has made the breeder-owner relationship go sour, unfortunately. So, I don't want to add more fuel to that fire...

SteelFistVelvetGlove

9th October 2008, 16:30

Very understandable. Since your keeping the dogs, I would imagine the warranty means some level of monetary compensation. Hope that goes well for you. In my experience is not usually the case. Ill be sending all good vibes out into the karmic ether that things go well. That and a dollar will buy you a cup of coffee... but hey, it's the thought that counts:)

presasrus

9th October 2008, 17:48

The breeder has been unveiled here too I believe...

Just ranting aloud but...

I say if this happens then the breeder ought to make the situation right...stand behind the "product", and keep the relationship/good reputation intact.

Darianna

9th October 2008, 18:07

sorry, it's no big mystery...there is no "unveiling" to do. I just don't want to re-hash things, that's all. I posted this info, because clearly Cindbird didn't get my original post on this thread to go check the other board, so that she could read more about what I meant in my post about waiting to test her male's hips at 2 years..

my relationship with Warsney has become strained by this situation...this is what happens when others report to him that i'm bashing him on a forum, and he doesn't go ahead and read the posts for himself...he says he will honour the warranty and his word, so time will tell...this is all I'm going to say about my issue...

Cinbird..I hope this makes it crystal clear as to why i think you should wait to check your dog's hips when he's 2. Obviously, it's your right to go ahead and do whatever you wish...

-Darianna