The Ideal pair?

[Opunui2311]

What do you consider to be the ideal pair in regards to breeding? What are the characteristics you would look for in each to consider it to be the ideal breeding? This is not a test I don't know shit about breeding, and would like to know the opinions of the ones who do.

[surfnplay12]

Kenny I think the first thing you have to determine is what you want to accomplish with the breeding. If you want working dogs then yuou have to evaluate the different drives of the dogs you are interested in breeding to see if they match up good. I would always have someone that new and understood the drives in dogs evaluate both breeding pairs so you know without a doubt what you have. And last but not least test test test always see both parents bite and bite under pressure its the only way to see if they are breed worthy. It doesnt matter if the dog is green or not if they are the real deal they will bite. I just tested alot of green dogs and all of the good ones bit and bit well reguardless if they had seen a sleeve or not. Hope that helps everybody has there own opinion thats just mine.

[SteelFistVelvetGlove]

I would advise only breeding the best two dogs you can find temprament wise that are within standard or closest. I would not compromise on temperement. I would say either both titled, or one titled, or input from at least 2 experienced PP or Sports Trainers after they evaluate the dogs for temperment for breeding worthiness. 2 Trainers that are totally objective and have no personal interest in the breeding.

That being said. If and when I breed again it will be for temprament only and two dogs with good hips. I am not much concerned with meeting the standard. I am still very curious about the King Zulu, Iron Bull, Atlas dogs. Ill have to go down to Phoenix when the one pup gets older and see how he looks.

[Drazhar]

why are you "curious"? have doubts about better breeders and their dogs than you and yours?

[surfnplay12]

?

[Opunui2311]

why are you "curious"? have doubts about better breeders and their dogs than you and yours?

No do you?

Is that a real question or are you trying to be smart?

[SteelFistVelvetGlove]

why are you "curious"? have doubts about better breeders and their dogs than you and yours?


The question was directed at me and was rather presumptuous in the assumption of my motive for being "curious".

Quite simply, I keep hearing of extremely naturally civil dogs from some of these breeders, I would like to see myself.

[Drazhar]

The question was directed at me and was rather presumptuous in the assumption of my motive for being "curious".

Quite simply, I keep hearing of extremely naturally civil dogs from some of these breeders, I would like to see myself.

fair enough.

[Drazhar]

No do you?

Is that a real question or are you trying to be smart?

i wasnt talking to you mate, just steelfist.

[mmafighter]

why are you "curious"? have doubts about better breeders and their dogs than you and yours?

Would you go buy a new truck without test driving it or any others beforehand? It's hard to form an opinion based on pictures and that breeders opinion. I would much rather visit a few different breeders and see the dogs and how they act before I bought dogs to start my breeding program if that were my intentions...

[eSPO]

Would you know enough about how to evaluate them ? i doubt it.

[Linn]

What do you consider to be the ideal pair in regards to breeding? What are the characteristics you would look for in each to consider it to be the ideal breeding? This is not a test I don't know shit about breeding, and would like to know the opinions of the ones who do.

As surfnplay12 says:
I think the first thing you have to determine is what you want to accomplish with the breeding

At first you have the breed standard that says how the dog is supposed to be. BUT people read the standard in different ways.
Not all is black and white as on the paper.

First thing I mean that the dogs (parents) must be breed typical, both in temperament and exterior..

YES temperament (and health) comes first, but if the presa looks like a toy poodle the dog is not typical of the breed.
When it comes to exterior I would at my best never double on faults.. Bad chest X bad chest, small head X small head for example..
But always make sure that the parents fill out each other.. AND look at the pedigree.. Brothers, sisters, parents, grand parents, uncle etc.
Get to know the line of dog you breed .. all lines have their positive AND negative sides. Nothing is perfect!

And for temerament I would think of what I want to use the dogs for.. I belive that you can use the presa for many things, BUT you would have to remove and give the dog qualities that would make the dog do what you want.

A belive that a presa would not be good as a rescue/search dog if you don't socialise much with people.. Make strangers into something positive and good. But, wouldn't you then "remove" something that the breed standard says for the presa? (distrustful with strangers)

Some mean that the dog MUST have titles in a sport to prove that it is worth the breeding.. others mean that the title is not important.
If you look at todays presa on the island .. (and the old one), do you think the dogs where/are breed to compete in sports, and to prove them by titles? Or where/are them breed to guard the house and "help around"?

I mean that no matter what you want out of the breeding and what you as a breeder look after, it is important that you stay true to the breed.

[geisthexe]

I believe to have a perfect breeding pair you must do the following:

1. Ask yourself why do you want to breed a litter of puppies?
2. Figure out what you are breeding for? aka Show? Working? Drive etc....
3. Look at the dogs you are thinking about breeding as see if they meet all the requirements in the standards of the breed.
4. Health test the dogs or if you are breeding out make her the one you are breeding too is tested.
5. Look at the temperment of the dogs?
6. Training the dog has had.
7. And I am a firm believer of titles on dogs. But thats for me not everyone.

I myself make sure that I meet my own requirements before I breed my dogs. I have had one litter and I am waiting awhile to breed again to see them grow.
I feel some folks breed because they think they are going to get rich, or want to produce as much as possible. But breeding should be waiting, timing, developement, Know what you are looking for.

Hope this has helped

Deb

[effa]

Ideal pair would be...

both dogs are tested before in breeding and we know what good and bad things thay give to puppies. This dogs doesn't need to be perfect in all aspects but things they give to their puppies let us predict that this breeding will give much better dogs than parrents without their defects. (not perfect doesn't mean bad character, bad health etc., rather visual aspect)

I would also add to this matching pedigrees with ancestors that will support the breeding, as puppies recive in many aspects characteristicks of their grandparents (sometimes even more than parents). And bad pedigree can spoil breeding of even good dogs (as many times we see... great parents and medium quality puppies)