+and- about dog parks

[Zhenya]

What do you guys think about dog parks is it good thing for dogs (especially our breed) or bad, can you share you opinion?
For now I can say only one good thing it is socialization, I couldn’t see nothing else other than that.
About bad stuff: Your dog will bring flea and fungus from parks, your dog will be beaten by other dogs, you will meet some dogs owners that have none control over his/her dog and they will ran in panic because they think my dog is some kind of beast or something… and so on.
What is yours experience?


One more question at what age your dog become dog aggressive?

[Canuck]

Personally, I think dog parks a recipe for disaster. I admit I used to take Taurus there , but I we have not gone in at least a year and a half with him.
Aside from what you allready mentioned, the disease they might bring home from dogs which might be sick there, I just dont trust people. I think in general, the average dog owner is not very educated on dogs and dog behavior. People might bring their aggressive dogs, and even though my dog might not start a fight, he will finish it, and he will be blamed. To me its too big of a risk just to let my dogs go run with other dogs. If he killed a smaller dog ( or possibly even a larger one...), he would surely be ordered to be euthanized, even if he did not start the fight.
My dogs have each other, and 3 or 4 other dogs that they play supervised with, and thats it. I really dont feel they need more socialization with dogs then that. Both of them is somewhat dog aggressive, so i feel they are happy with each other.

As far as the dog aggression thing. Taurus ( 5 year old male Pit Bull) had 0 dog aggression until he was 4 years old. He could pay with other intact males, with no problem. Once he hit 4 , we had him neutered (which may or may not have an effect on the situation), and all of a sudden he saw no need to interact with other dogs. He ignores dogs he passes on the street, but if a dog approaches him, he will growl or snap... nothing overly aggressive though.
Jada is more aggressive with other dogs, ( 14 month old Presa Mix). She is fine with smaller dogs, and dogs which aren't very dominant, but larger, more dominant dogs and her do not mix. She has been this way since she was about 4 months old. She has not gotten worse since that age, but no better either.

[Canuck]

This is taken from another site:

A Day At The Park


He is just like other dogs I would always say;
He loves to go to the dog park to play every day

Everyone loves him there, so it's ok;
My dog won't fight--he wasn't raised that way

But then one day, right before dark,
A troubled young man came into the park

He had by his side the biggest dog I'd ever seen,
And unfortunately for us, both were quite mean

We asked very nicely if they would just go;
The dog answered with a snarl and the man with a harsh "NO!"

Well his dog was a terror, threatening to all;
Then he started a fight with a Lab over a ball

They fought pretty hard and the man would not intervene;
Then here comes my dog and pushes right in between

He grabbed that big dog and thrashed him around;
And with one quick jerk threw him down on the ground

The Lab was able to escape; I heard everyone cheer;
But my dog was now in a frenzy and would not let me near

When he finally let go, what I saw stopped my heart;
That big mean dog had been torn apart

The authorities were called, the big dog was now dead;
But they didn't take the big dog; they took my dog instead

We all tried to explain that my dog saved the day;
But because of his breed he was taken away

You see my dog was a Pitbull and they don't get any breaks;
One small incident is all that it takes

A dog had died; And though he hadn't started the fight,
My dog was held responsible for what happened that night

He was deemed a danger to all and sentenced to death;
And I hold him now as he takes his last breath

It's my fault that my dog is being killed today;
Please listen for a moment to what I am going to say

Everyone warned me about his potential to fight;
I said it won't happen, I am raising him right

And now my dog is paying the ultimate price;
Because I was stubborn and wouldn't take the advice

He only did what he was bred to do;
Learn from our story; don't let it happen to you.

S. Gauthier

[Canuck]

"Dog Parks"
Why They Are A Bad Idea !!!

"It's Your Job to Protect Your Dog"

By Ed Frawley




Here is a book that I recommend to read called Fatal Dog Attacks

About once every couple of days I get an email from someone asking about problems with their dogs being attacked when they are on walks or running loose at one of the local parks that many cities setup for people to take their dogs to. People question me on how to deal with overly aggressive dogs that belong to other people and they question me about their own dogs not trying to defend themselves. Some people want to know if they should just let the dogs work out the problems themselves.

I want to go on record as saying that the concept of ”Dog Parks” was well intended but a bad idea, especially if the dogs are allowed to run off-leash. I do not recommend people take their dogs to these places.

The average person does not understand how strong the pack instinct is in their pet. These drives click into high gear when a dog is taken into a park with other dogs. Dogs that are encountered when going to these parks look at the new visitors as intruders in “their personal territory.” This leads to territorial aggression.

When there is a group of dogs that are allowed to run together, they instinctively try to establish a rank order (or packing order). If there are several dogs that want to assume the role of pack leader there are going to be problems. If the dogs are left to their own devices, each dog will assume its rank within the pack. There is a good possibility that fights will develop to determine what order various dogs fall in.

With inexperienced dogs, or dogs that do not have strong temperaments there will be posturing going on before a fight begins. Many times owners can verbally control their dogs and warn them to back off. But all too often dogs who have fought before will launch into a full-fledged attack. These dogs have learned that a fast attack is often a successful attack. In other words, they have learned to be good fighters.





You cannot assume that every dog in the park is a well-mannered, well-trained pet. Just because you see it playing with other dogs does not mean that it will play with your dog. It has already settled the rank order with these other dogs and the game may be going according to their rules. Your dog will not know the rules and can easily get into trouble.



I often get emails from people who are disappointed in their puppy or young dog because it shy's away from other dogs and shows avoidance to other dogs they meet on walks or in parks. These people don't understand that their dogs look to them as being “their pack leader.” In the wild the pack leader protects his pack. Your young dog instinctively expects you to protect it. When that does not happen, the dog is in conflict and loses confidence. If threatened before it is mature, these young dogs will show avoidance to strange dogs and strange situations. I am sure that what happens is that the pup learns that it's owner is not going to step in and help, so it's on it's own. This breaks down to a young dog becoming unsure in other situations. After all, if his best friend and pack leader will not protect him who will?

When you stop to think about it, normal people would not expect their young children to fight adults that were threatening them. So why do people expect their young dogs to show aggression to older dogs or even dogs of their own age? In most cases, the owners simply lack the understanding of pack drives and dog training. People get caught in the trap of thinking they have a German Shepherd from working police K-9 bloodlines and by God it should be tough!! Well, it doesn't always work that way.

If new owners do everything right when their pup is young the dog can grow up to be a confident, strong protection dog if it has the genes to allow this to happen. But in the hands of the wrong person the same dog can grow up to be a basket case. This is one of the reasons I do not guarantee temperament in the pups I sell. Too many people out there lack common sense or the experience to properly train a dog.

So if your dog is approached by a dog that looks like it may be aggressive you need to take the aggressors role. Verbally tell the dog in a deep voice to get out of there. If another dog attacks your dog you need to do what I explain in my article on Breaking Up A Dog Fight. If I were to walk a dog in the city, I would not do it without a can of pepper gas to use on any dog that even looks cross-eyed at my puppy. I would not hesitate to physically go after a dog that approaches my pup. The only ones that would be allowed to come close would be dogs I know for a fact are well-mannered, friendly soles that will be tolerant and play with my puppy.



While some breeds are predisposed to fight more than others, every breed has it's own bullies. There are too many people out there that don't come close to the label of being a “responsible pet owner.” With the number of fighting breeds growing, the risks of taking your pet to one of these parks is not worth taking. Owners need to realize that once a puppy or adult has been attacked, it will become a dog aggressive animal itself. This only has to happen one time for a permanent temperament change to occur in some animals. Dog aggression is a real pain in the ass.

Finally, if your dog is a bully and is aggressive to other dogs, you need to explain to him that this is unacceptable behavior. Softer dogs can get the message with a simple verbal reprimand, while other dogs need to have a prong collar put on and get a correction (after being told NO STOP THAT!!)

With persistent dogs this correction needs to be so hard that the dog thinks it's life is over. The correction needs to be so severe that the idea of fighting or showing aggression is not as strong as the fear of what happens when he does not mind. For these dogs the presence of another dog is a big distraction, but they need to understand that if they allow the distraction to take control the punishment will be swift and severe. Once they understand this simple concept they will become much better dogs because of it.

Giving a dog this kind of correction is not a pretty sight. Many people do not have the temperament to do it (they simply cannot bring themselves to do it), many people do not have the temperament to watch it (my sister-in-law is one of them), but dog fighting is serious business. Animals get hurt and people get hurt trying to break up fights. Every dog must look to his pack leader as the boss and learn that dog fighting is not something that will be tolerated.

If you have a dog that needs help with distraction training I would direct you to my training video on Basic Dog Obedience. This tape will guide you through these problems. It will explain the principles of correction and reading a dog’s temperament to determine what level of correction to use.

P. S. I am looking for some good photos of dog parks for this article. If you would like to donate some pictures of dogs in dog parks I would appreciate it.









http://www.leerburg.com/dogparks.htm

[PresaRed]

I took Choque to a dog park here in London when he was younger and he enjoyed it quite a bit.

When he was about 10-11 months he could no longer go as I just can't trust that he won't get in a fight if there is another intact male around.

He is great with younger dogs, and most females but it's not worth the risk, if another male stares at him and he lights up and I happen to not be paying attention it's not worth all the socialization in the world.

I also found that his obedience suffered when he was going to the dog park regularly, why listen to me, and play with me when he has the opportunity to run and play with other dogs all the time.

It's all about what you want to do with your dog, reading how your dog is reacting, and of course paying attention to other people and how there dogs are acting. I've found ALOT of idiots with no control over there dogs at the few dog parks I've seen.

Anyways, that's my experience / thoughts

[Trysh]

i used to take mine all the time about 2 weeks ago i realized it was no longer a go.
he started to run and growl after every intact male. i now dont want any problems and his time at dog parks has run out.

[Zhenya]

Posted: Sat Sep 25, 2004 3:59 pm Post subject:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

i used to take mine all the time about 2 weeks ago i realized it was no longer a go.



The same thing happened to me today “It is not just worth it”, I suddenly realize that a dog park isn’t such a wonderful place after all. My dog isn’t dog aggressive, not at all, but last few weeks all of a sudden seams like almost every male dog want to piece of mine. Maybe he is sending some kind of wrong massages to them, and I afraid that one day he will answer with fight for a fight and they will be consequences.
The Dog Park days are over for us!!!

[blas_t]

It definitely is not worth the risk. Pharus use to really enjoy it and was , but at about 10 months would not tolerate another dog trying to dominate her.
They dogs are never off leash off the property. Even if the other dog was the aggresser, chances arethat our dogs would finish it . One look at the presa and authorities would be pointing the finger our direction.

[rdl]

Interesting comments. I used to take Romeo as well. recently had to deal with a viral infection transmitted from park. Ran rampant city wide in Houston,Tx. Now that Romeo is 10 months I do not take him any more. While well trained and of good temperment, he is a Presa. He acts loke a Presa, which is why I selected him. I see signs of aggression w/ other alpha males. He is only doing what his instints tell him to do. I came to the conclusion that it is my responsibility to look out for my friend just as I expect him to look out for me at home and on the street. Common sense is my advice on this topic!