PDA

View Full Version : Majorero Mythology


josebrwn
24th September 2004, 16:16
The influence, importance, and role of the Majorero in the Perro de Presa Canario has been like the fish tale, where the fish grows larger and larger with every telling.

To be succinct: the Majorero is neither the ancestor of the Presa, nor a sufficient or even necessary element of the breed. This claim, made almost exclusively on this board, is based on research proposed by one person alone, and over time, that proposition has been distorted to the point it is almost unrecognizable.

Here is the original, undistorted version:


After several years of study and going over the matter again and again, I have reached the following conclusion. Presa dogs and Perros Majoreros on that island, as on the other islands, coexisted and bred amongst themselves throughout various centuries, from the beginning of the fifteenth century to the end of the nineteenth century. And sometime afterwards, we do not even know the approximate date (I personally think maybe at the end of the last century, beginning of this one), the Presa disappears, only traces of it remaining, no doubt in decline, basically due to negligence on the part of the herdsmen. Crossbreeding did the rest. The Perro de Ganado Majorero in Fuerteventura, or its sort, disappeared from the other islands just like the Presa did. I wish to say that if the old Presa Canario of Iberian stock disappeared as a breed, it has continued in the purest of the Perro de Ganado Majoreros to the present day. It is true that very few of these dogs are of significant pure breed, but they do exist. In fact, right now we are trying to recuperate the breed with part of this genetic material.


And again


But be warned that not all Presas Canarios have genetic heritage from this genuinely Canarian breed. The ones from the island of Gran Canaria do, but the ones from Tenerife (with the exception of IREMA CURTÓ and some other) do not. This is why there are many Presas Canarios with an important percentage of Perro Majorero blood in them, which are also wonderful watchdogs, with sharp senses of territoriality. The biggest problem for these Presas is officialdom. That is to say, the Club's specialist judges, which in turn are almost all breeders themselves, value more the other type of Presa, which carries more characteristics of the Great Dane, the Bullmastiff, the English Bulldog, etc. And since the monographic and special prizes of the breed have been so deemed by these very judges, well, that's where the Special Show winners, the Monographic Show winners and the Champion of Spain winners come from-with the exception of one or two. The Perro de Ganado Majorero, the real one, is almost extinct nowadays due to abandonment and chance breeding. Yet it is also the base, the ideal prime material for pulling forth the Presa Canario as a functional animal. And to the extent that the Perro Majorero is predominant in the Presa Canario, with proper selection, generation after generation, the guard instinct will be guaranteed. Otherwise, the Presa Canario will become a mere and vulgar show dog with no future.


What we have here is a theory. In the reconstruction of a lost breed it is not unreasonable to assume that lost genetic material from one breed may be recovered by a careful program of cross breeding to another breed that is related through admixture of genes, which should exist in this case if we assume, probably quite safely, that the dogs regularly interbred throughout their history. In short we are not presented with the idea that the Majorero is an ancestor of, or even a necessary component of the Presa Canario, as seems to be the popular interpretation, but is proposed rather as a "repository" of lost genes from the Presa dogs of old.

But a lot of genetic mutation can occur in ten or twenty years, let alone over a hundred years, and since we are essentially talking about a pre-Columbian race of dog, it is just as safe to assume that these same "lost genes" can be found in any breed similarly descended from the war dogs of the Spanish conquistadors: American Bulldogs, Spanish, English, French and Bull Mastiffs, even the English fighting dogs, whose genes flowed from Iberia to Britannia and back several times, before making their way to the Americas.

That the Majorero may be a more ideal repository of these "lost genes" due to geographic isolation may be worthy of study, and that study can be performed by phylogenetic study at the Dog Genome Project at UC Berkeley and at the Ostrander Lab at Fred Hutchinson Cancer Research Center. Such a thing has already been tried, and it has failed, not surprisingly. The small amount of genetic material available from the remaining, heavily diluted stock of Majorero; diluted throughout its decline in the 20th century, and further diluted to the point of total unrecoverability during its latter day reconstruction, together with the unavoidable facts of genetic inheritance, puts the theory of the Majorero as an essential, or even qualifying ingredient of the Presa Canario squarely in the camp of interesting, but unsubstantiated and unsupportable theory, and nothing more.

What then is the true Presa Canario? A dog, descending from the dogs native to the Canary Islands in the latter 20th century, answering in type and temperament to the RSCE Standard of 1989. What we should seek is this, and then put the issue to rest. What remains after that is the never-ending quest for a functional guardian, loyal, intelligent, athletic, and healthy.

Such a dog exists in the United States in the bloodlines of Jardin Canario. Rustic, athletic, high performance dogs, of hard temperament, superlative guardians, tremendous athletes, first winners of the Canarian Expositions, pure Canarian blood, imported into the United States in the same year the RSCE standard was drafted, first among the RRC registered dogs, are not these as much an ideal repository of the true Presa Canario, as a recent cross with the Majorero, which itself is a merely a cross-bred shepherd's dog? It does us good to remember that as many years have passed now since the day of Tonio and Princesa as had passed from theirs back to the days of Piba and Boby. These dogs are an inescapable and essential component of our breed, and should be celebrated as such. The Presa is first and foremost a functional fighting dog and capable guardian, and abandonment of this important bloodline in favor of theories is a fundamentally flawed approach that does injustice to this breed.

Tonio del Jardin Canario, ca. 1990

http://www.bessie.tv/images/jpg/elpresa/jc/74.jpg

Tonio and Bill Jarvis

http://www.bessie.tv/images/jpg/elpresa/jc/tonojarvis.jpg

Tonio's 1989 pedigree

http://www.bessie.tv/images/jpg/elpresa/jc/tonped.jpg

First Exposition 1993 Winner, Ebro del Jardín Canario, owned by don Julián Seli.

http://www.bessie.tv/images/jpg/elpresa/jc/tonart1.jpg



Bulldog Exposition I of the Canaries

Last June 27th, the Bulldog Exposition I of the Canaries was celebrated for the first time in the history of Telde at the El Quinto fairgrounds, in the San Juan district, all being a resounding success, as much in the organization as in the participation of pedigree specimens, according to the literal words of the national judge, Celemente Reyes Santana, who mentioned that with the 163 dogs that participated in said exposition a record had been broken, at the same time he made mention of the excellent quality of the animals that were shown by their owners.

It is calculated that the on mass scale of participation of the spectators was around 2,000 or 2,500. A new record, as judge Clemente Reyes mentioned earlier.

Prizes were given for the following categories:

1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th, and 5th for pups between 1 and 6 months old; 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th, and 5th for pups between 7 and 12 months old; and so on for female adults, male adults and the champion of champions, the latter being the best specimen presented and corresponding to the dog named Ebro, owned by don Julián Seli and representing the Jardín Canario.

Behind the obtained success was the organization, that was taken care of by the board of directors of the Association. The Unión Casino of Telde has seen fit to try to continue with this type of event in the future, in order to continue offering the citizens, young and old alike, the possibility of spending a Sunday such as this one in the city of Telde.

The event lasted approximately seven hours.

The organizers, Nacho Calderín and F. Ramón Alamo, encourage this board of directors to proceed as they are doing and,* to give my (their) most heart felt congratulations to all those persons who have collaborated with this event, especially the town festivities councilor, without whose collaboration would have been carried out with great difficulty, according to organization sources.

SteelFistVelvetGlove
24th September 2004, 16:47
Would not a legitimate reconstruction include the genetics of the Majerero? Is this what Curto has also done with keeping Majerero genetics in his dogs?
thx
Dennis.

blas_t
24th September 2004, 19:05
This is not necessarily how I feel , but what i think the major issue with the lines of Tonio and Princess, is simply the lack of indefinite proof that these dogs are who the importer said they were, and even more than that , what shadeyness was put into play by Richard Kelly.
I myself , have not been convinced either way , but believe and respect Espo and the research he has done, but if you want to convince the world of these dogs blood, Joe, you and Dave should put the same effort as you guys did to get Presa Canario recognized by UKC. Start getting a hold of official documents sent from the spanish registries, etc... Get Bill Jarvis to post as many documents and anything else pertaining to the import of these dogs. We have all heard that a box of papers and photo's is on it's way for quite sometime. This shouldnt be some great mystery, it shouldnt be that hard to prove with out a doubt and end this boring arguement of legitamisy, not to prove anything to your selves, only the general public.

25th September 2004, 01:36
those pictures of Tonio are awsome! anyone who would deny them are just plain "HATERS"


"get over it" you know who you are.(Bla************st)

25th September 2004, 01:46
how many personalities can you possibly show us?

eSPO
25th September 2004, 02:46
Too funny. This bloodline is more documented more than most bloodlines from the constructiion. , it is six generations deep in the US, not some recent crossed typey bulldog. You just have to know where to look. Todd, your research is so vast and wide , why don`t you start with Tonios RSCE number on the bottom right of the certificate ?. Tell me what you find. Richard Kelly took one puppy out of Tonio and Princessa, Medusa, he made his own selections with her and went the direction that he saw fit. Jasmine( a sister to Medusa,out of Tonio and Princesa) went her own way and formed her own line being paired with Banot de Haridian. You know better than to generalize like that.

Roberto
25th September 2004, 03:57
When I got my first Presa 12 years ago from Bill Jarvis and Travis White I had no doubt at all whatsoever that Tono and Princessa were of the origin they say they were. Why would two young returned missionarys fresh home from their missions, with a rare breed of dog that at that time was unknown by almost everyone have to gain by fabricating lies about the origin of their dogs?
I bought Jazzmin from them. Jazzie was one awesome dog! Smart, athletic, protetive and hardcore to the bone. I loved the breed so much that I decided to get a male. I looked for two years to find a dog to breed with, and could not find one. Bill Jarvis helped me to import Banot from the Canary islands. Banot is from Haridan/ Curto lines, and was one of the most rustic and hard presas I have ever seen.
Jazzie And Banot produced some very nice offspring. I KNOW where MY dogs origins are from! I don't give a flying monkey fart for all the urban legends and outright lies that that have been propagated about Tono and Princessa line. I know the people, I knew the dogs, there is no debate in my mind.

blas_t
25th September 2004, 07:36
you guys misread the post, I said these are not necesarrily MY feelings, and proceeded to repeat common knowelege of this rumour. then i stated , that absolute proof should be found to end this boring shitty debate.
Dave quite being a jerk, we have talked about this countless times, and you know i respect you and your work and knowelege of the breed.
WE spoke via email Rob , and thought you new how i feel. Anyways this wasnt an insult to you i was simply stateing it would be nice to end this debate.
Above Par, think what you want , but I cant sit here quiet and nice when so much crap is up there and going on. I never commented toward you at all. I didnt ask what your goals as a presa breeder are? what health checks have been done? why your dogs are breeding quality, and how they match and compliment each other to improve the breed? etc... i think you posess very little knowelege of the breed, yet take it upon your self to contribute to the population. this is also not very good for the breed , so how about reassuring us all your intentions are good , and answer these questions, and fill us in on you philosophies and beliefs of the Presa Canario, its function, and where it is going in the future? Instead of congradulating a poor decision that a breeder and forum member made regarding a new litter. Just because i dont approve of someones action or their beliefs, doesnt reflect any personal negitive feelings toward the person, but i dont think sitting quiet and not saying anything out of kindness, or being afraid to hurt someones feelings,isnt any good either when i dissaprove or disagree so strongly, or have a suggestion to help like i did in this post. and my intentions are never to be personal or to make any one feel hurt , this is only regarding dogs.
I wouldnt have even posted this, but it is bold statements from Joe how important a roll this line of dogs is and has played on the breed, and Espo's brags of superiority of health and temperment that warrent I am also stating that i dont disagree or agree with this, but only that this matter should be resolved then , because anything so significant should not be surrounded by such contraversy and proven true and factual.
Sorry again for the misunderstanding.

eSPO
25th September 2004, 13:43
Sorry Todd, it gets old. There is no controversy about this lines origins outside of the heads of a jealous liars who have been a plague to this breed for years. . I am going to Utah next weekend , perhaps I can visit Bill and pick up some momentos and photos. I hear he has a nice one of Tonio and Princesa taken at a studio. No brag, just fact on health and temperent. Tonio ran marathons with Bill untill he was over ten years old.
Sanchos dad, and mom had nice, long disease free lives. I have never seen any of Sanchos siblings with a health or temperment problem.

josebrwn
25th September 2004, 21:32
http://www.bessie.tv/images/jpg/elpresa/jc/tonped.jpg


http://www.bessie.tv/images/jpg/elpresa/jc/tonhealtheng.jpg


http://www.bessie.tv/images/jpg/elpresa/jc/tonvetcert.jpg


http://www.bessie.tv/images/jpg/elpresa/jc/tontat1.jpg




The Story of Tonio and Princesa

by Bill Jarvis

On May 5, 1988, while on the island of La Palma, I saw a Presa Canario for the first time. I vividly remember speaking with the owner about his dog, At that time I had been in the Canary Islands for two months living in Santa Cruz de La Palma. The dog owner, who was born and raised in La Palma, had a banana farm where he told me he had owned Presas for many years. He was not a breeder, just a very happy Presa owner. I was impressed at how his two Presas were so gentle with his family.and with us once we were properly introduced.

On that day, I decided I would spend the next 15 months researching the breed, going to Presa Canario dog shows, and meeting breeders in order to find the perfect companion to bring home to the United States. During the next 15 months I lived on the following islands: La Palma, Lanzarote, Tenerife, Gran Canaria. On every Island I made a point of looking up breeders and getting to know their dogs.

During the end of my time in Las Islas Canarias I lived in Las Palmas del Gran Canaria. While there I attended numerous shows and got acquainted with various breeders. One breeder, Julián Celis Sanchez, produced constant show winners. That year, 1989, Julian’s prize dog, Rocote del Jardin Canario, won best of breed at a Presa only show held in Las Palmas. I was present at the show and was amazed by Rocote’s physical beauty, presence, and composure.

The show was amazing. Watching hundreds of Presa’s under the same roof was a memorable experience to say the least. There were Presa’s from all islands present and all top breeders were there. In the final round, the top two Presa’s were presented face-to-face in the center of the floor. After a few seconds the other Presa - also an amazingly beautiful dog - got tired of looking into Rocote’s eyes and became aggressive. He retreated quickly once his handler caught his attention. it was a fantastic event.

Following the show I went to visit Julián’s facilities and to see all his dogs. There was a litter scheduled from one of his top bitches that fit right in with my departure to the United States. My new companion, Toño Del Jardín Canario, was a hit all the way to the United States.

A friend of mine, Travis White, purchased a beautiful female Presa from Julián that was born a few months before Toño. Travis left for the US with Princesa in May of 1989 and I left with Toño in July of 1989.

Toño was an amazing animal. As I am an excursive fanatic, Toño kept in top shape. Toño and I ran daily for his entire life. Even at the age of 12, he and I would run over 10 miles without any complaints from him. While training for marathons with me, Toño would run up to 20 miles - in the mountains of Utah and on the beaches of Miami. Toño could clear a 6-foot fence and take a roller blader for the ride of their life (rolling blading behind Toño was more like water skiing).

While running with Toño was fantastic, the attention he would get EVERYTIME we left the house made it hard to run without constantly stopping to talk to admirers. Toño left a memorable impression on me and everyone that had the privilege of knowing him.........



[I apologize for my earlier comments, I was mad and got out of line.]