DOG AGGRESSION WITH MY KID

[lemont]

Hey butch how can i stop human aggression with my 8 yr old son. Because it's at the point were its getting real serious my presa bit him in the ass (excuse my french) and marked him pretty bad and this is an on got thing. should i elminate ruff house playing between the two or what. what should i do? :confused: :confused: :confused: p.s my presa is not that aggressive with my 12 and 15 yr old sons. presa is only 5 months. :confused: :confused:

[slamm]

Dog aggression is when your presa is trying to fight other dogs not your kid. Your presa just thinks that he is equal or higher in the pecking order than your 8 yr old but lower than your older sons. Butch will give you advise on how to correct this.

Sam

[josebrwn]

Who are the sire and dam? He sounds like a good candidate for Youth in Asia. Sorry but this is serious shit. No biting people, ever.

{crack of gunshot in the distance}

[slamm]

Joe, I think you would be a little over zealous in your culling practices on this one. Lemont, you say that the 8 yr. old and the pup rough house together right? Just going off what I think is happening. I would say that their isn't any malice in the heart of your pup he is simply playing a game and doesn't know how hard he can play until someone shows him. If he thinks he can "whip" your 8 year old then he will, because that is what rough pups do when they play. Unless, you step in, and as the clear ALPHA leader make the pup understand that this type of action will not be tolerated. My pups were the sameway and still are. They are not biting because they have bad nerves or bad genetics or were raised to kill, kill, kill. They bite because they are pups and that is how they play with each other, it is natural for a dog to bite while playing, it is unnatural to not bite. I have always let my dogs bite me and anyone who could stand it DURING ROUGH PLAYTIME, we wrestle hard sometimes, sometimes I get bit hard enough to bleed some. Sometimes the pups growl as we playfight for a "dead basketball" or towel or whatever, but that is all it is, play. If you ever watch (which I do most every night) pups play with each other, they will do the same they will roll each other, hit each other, bit each other hard enough to make the other one cry or fight harder. They are playing.
The reason I explain all of that, is to explain this. Obviously, your pup and your 8 year old are playing the same game, but on different levels of pain involved. What the pup sees as a fun game, your 8 year old sees as a "pain in the rear", LOL, literally. In this case I would not allow roughousing between the 8 year old and the pup, until either your 8 year old's pain tolerance increases or the pups level of play decreased. So again, I would say that you probably should not let them rough house if this is the cause of the biting, you should be able to judge whether this is what is causing the biting action.
The other thing it could be is that the pup is trying to figure out where in the pack he belongs, and he is trying to beat out the 8 year old for "second to last" and not just dead last, LOL. In this case your 8 year old needs to work on establishing his command over the pup WITH YOUR ASSISTANCE AS THE ALPHA LEADER (Butch will have a better program for this, than what I would advise publically). Again, I don't think this makes the pup a bad dog, just one that needs a little guidance from his leader.
The other thing it could be is your 8 year old is just plain mean to the pup. I have found this to be the case more times than not, between kids and animals in general, and that possibly the pup bites out of defense of himself (Although, a bite to the rearend would not be a defensive bite (unless your kid is attacking him with his butt, LOL, you didn't say were the other bites have been).
These are just some ideas of what it could be. Try to figure out which one you think it is and get back with us. Because, based on your initial description we just have to guess at the exact cause of the biting. Although, any of the problems are fixable and in my opinion do not prove that a pup is of the devil.
I personally, like pups that bite a lot, some people don't like pups that bite. I have always allowed my pups to bite and fight me as I have found that they will grow out of it. With some of my pups, I would have to put them away when we had company over because they would just bite everyone and everything, not out of meanness or ill-will, just because they are trying to provoke a fight and some play, out of the "new play toys" (the human strangers). Now, I have a three year old little girl and a four year old little boy, so having pups like this around was a bit of a juggling match until now. Because now I am starting to correct the pups on their general manners in the presence of my children, which is what you are going to have to do with yours.
It's all just a process of getting the dog to act and fit into your family how you want them to fit. 99.99% dogs don't care how or where they fit just as long as you clearly explain the rules to them.

Hope it helps, and get back with us,

Sam

[ButchCappel]

Slamm, I could use a little help on the new book, got a little extra time? Very good answers, and I can add very little, but I will try.

Lemont, what Slamm is saying is very accurate, since the bite was a rear bite it is highly likely (wasn't there to see it) that it was all being done in play. Textbook "aggression" is rarely displayed before the onset of puberty, in your dog 9-12 months average, so aggression, is maybe not the best word to use.

We have no problem watching 5 year olds play and if one picks up a stick and beans the other one, we don't get worried that that one will be an axe murderer when he grows up. They are using there hands in a manner that teaches them how to become coordinated and there is no malice intended.

Pups don't have hands, they have a mouth, but they go through the same actions to learn how to use their bodies, as all other mammals do. Play is just a learning stage for the skills they would need later if they were still on their own. If biting or chewing in pups had anything to do with real agression the canine species would have destroyed itself a long time ago.

I also agree that the pup sees the 8 yr. old as a sibling playmate & prpbably feels they are best buds. I would think your job is to tell the "kids" when the play escalates to an unacceptable level, as you would if a human kid picked up a stick to belt the other one.

My only concern is the 8 yr old getting excited and screaming in a manner that escalates the excitement in the pup. When pups roughhouse the one that gets to a point of serious pain will roll over and submit, that signals the one "on top" to back off.

When playing with humans, that don't understand puppy talk, the child becomes louder and more animated when hurt. This signals the dog to escalate the fight intensity, that is what, later makes an adult wolf fight harder to bring down a struggling moose. That is the parents role, to assure that this stage is not reached.

Again, as Slamm said, you set the limits and the dog will gladly follow them (not always true of the human kid) . Show the 8 yr old what to do if the pup gets carried away and supervise their play and I think you have the beginning of a really special relationship between the two.

Good luck

[lemont]

thanks bucth and you too slam :ok: :ok: :ok: