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View Full Version : Crosspost here, I would like to hear some comments on this.


slamm
9th August 2004, 19:21
'THE BEST OF DOM' (just a repeat)
IP: 151.202.187.28
Posted on August 9, 2004 at 11:16:21 AM by ALAN

there are several major differences between a pure \"trial\" style ....and an actual use protection style...........most people will jump to the conclusion that the basic difference is one is mainly prey....the other mainly defense.....but that greatly over simplifies the matter....the truth is that there are many subtle things that affect the ability of a staged scenario to ring \"true\" to a dog....a condition of training which is necessary to insure reliable response in the real and varied world....FIRST: the quality of training helpers....in sch..or other sports it is very desirable to use one primary helper to develope the dog....this helper has a clear goal in mind and a plan of how to get the dog there, in this style of training we are very concerned with small details of style that the dog is developing....deep, steady grip....fast strike....close and intense guarding....for a few examples....however there are side effects to all conditioning...things that the dog learns that we are not fully aware of....if training is done on one particular helper...then the dog will become less suspicious of \"others\".....if training is done on a FEILD....then the dog becomes less ready off the feild.....if the \" bad guy\" is usually carrying a whip/sleeve/or wearing a suit.....then the dog subconsciously becomes less aware of \"others\" ......if the helper has unnatural movement....then the dog associates this with agression...if the helpers always make unusual noises.....then the dog will learn to distrust only or primarialy those individuals.....it is extremely difficult to try and be aware of all the associations that any given dog might be making...but it makes all the difference in the world when expecting to depend ones life on the dogs reactions....in contrast , when one is training to trial....we have possibly difficult, yet fairly predictable circumstances....this predictability is an asset when training in this style, it enables us to condition the animal to great exactitude by training based primarilly on repetition......what I am saying is even if you train in \"agression\"...using very little PREY....but still train primarilly in the same spot....or with the same helper....or if the helper makes the same sound....then depending on the nature of the dog...he may not be reliable in a sudden, unorthodox siduation.....I have painfully discovered that this business of training dogs can be most challenging.......we must constantly be re-evaluating our results and making adjustments......without these considerations it might even be preferable to do little or no training with a good natural protector...in order to avoid these side effects......I am often heard to say that dog training is 80% what we DONT do........or a little knowledge is dangerous........DONOVAN

josebrwn
11th August 2004, 18:45
preferable to do little or no training with a good natural protector...in order to avoid these side effects......

I remember when Dave got his butt chewed every which-way over this, by the Dogo geniuses on bandog banter, "no such thing as a natural protectors, gotta send dogs to boot kamp, yada yada".

Lots of ignorance around, and yea a little knowledge is very dangerous. I was talking w/ NAPBTA pres. about SchH, he'd heard I was doing some SchH - the WP gossip-mill is alive and kickin' - he was writing an article about the problem of using the APBT in SchH (there are questions). I said well, it's just a sport, it's about teamwork and precision and talent and drive and all that stuff that's just .... good. He said yea well he was more concerned with the guy in White Center (the local rat-hole crack-infested place you don't want to be from) out in his yard beating his dog with a stick. Can't argue there.

I saw a Belgian Shepherd last week that would blow your mind. Young dog, not a year, doing stuff no Presa could do. I do not think you could hurt that dog with a little training. Probably better off training it than not.

So I guess in my extremely limited experience, I have not seen a dog that was less better off with some training that it was before.

Oh! Funny anechdote. A marital arts instructor I know told a story about his biker days. One really big mean guy was taking Karate or TaeKwonDo or one of those equally useless sports ;) and the instructor and one of his buddies were sitting at the bar one day and his friend says, "you know ol' billy bob, he's not such a good fighter anymore, now that's he's taking karate". The moral was that training can hurt you if it takes your focus away from the bottom line.

But I don't know nuttin bout no dogs, just yammering.......