IS IT THE DOG? OR IS IT THE OWNER?

[glassjaw_gurlie]

HI Im Ruthy's daughter. Im in 9th grade, and I am doing a huge assignment on Presa's. The question that I would like to ask everyone for thier opinion is : "Is it the dog or the owner that is the killler?" I guess it could range from any type of dog, but I will mostly talk about the pressa's.
So is it possible that every so often there could just be a bad egg in a litter, or is it just all the owners and breeders fault when a dog could become out of control? I just need everyones opinion's on this please as a reference.
I hope that this subject doesnt get too much out of controll, I just want everyone's own opionions and please do not turn this into a debate!! I just really don't want to start anything big. THANKS!!!! xoxox/Rachael

[Virtues]

Hi Ruthy's daughter,

I think it's BOTH environment/socialization/training and breeding. If I had to pick one though, it'd be the owner. A Pomeranian killed a four year old. Two Presa mixes killed once. I don't think it's the dog.

Blame the deed, not the breed! :)

[AmericanC]

40/60. Dog/owner. Some dogs no matter what you do to them will never bite anyone. Some will bite unprovoked. In the end it's the owners responsibility for owning a dog biter.

[eSPO]

Hi Rachael ! The kind of time that a dog spends in its first days,weeks, and months will determine the kind of behavior your dog will exhibit. Early imprinting, socialization, and training are critical and important. Dogs have been domesticated and bred for a long time by humans to do certain tasks. Some of these tasks require speed, agility,strength,drive, and a strong bite. The Presa Canario had a task of guarding goatherds and holding livestock .This task required the above mentioned attributes. The same attributes that can be used to benefit us can be used to hurt us. Early imprinting, socialization and training allow the dog to acquire proper behavior and suppress negative impulses. Generally speaking, in situations where there are problems with dogs biting and attacking, it is a problem of the lack of control , proper socialization and training more than any genetic predisposition.

[josebrwn]

Hi Rachael, the Center for Disease Control has a page on dog bite statistics. You will see that Pit Bulls, Huskies, Malamutes, Shepherds, Rottwelliers, Chows, St. Bernards, Akitas, Great Danes, and mixed breeds including Wolf hybrids, account for all the fatalities through 1996. The web site includes discussion of bite prevention and cites many sources you could pursue further.

http://www.cdc.gov/epo/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/00047723.htm


When I was your age it was Dobermans everyone was worried about. Before that, it was Shepherds. Later it was Rottwelliers, and then Pit Bulls. The number of fatalities and the ensuing public hysteria - fueled not so much by the fatalities as the media frenzy - followed each breed as its popularity, and population, increased.

I believe there is something in there for your paper - remember that the Presa's noteriety exists as the result of an single, extremely bizarre event. It was the strange people involved and lurid situation that kept the media and public enthralled.

Personally, I've found it an odd experience to own a Presa afterwards. Pit Bulls are responsible for scores of attacks on people every year, but I do not think Pit Bull owners are routinely informed by every person they meet, "oh, your dog is the one that killed someone." :rolleyes: That is due to one and only one thing, the media.

[SarahC]

Hello Ruthy's Daughter,

My own opinion is that personal responsibility is everything. A dog is all that it's owner allows it to be or not to be. Of course there is the whole "chaos theory" type that anything can happen at any time and be completely out of anyones control.

Good luck on your project - let us know about your findings - I am very interested in what our young people are up to!

SarahC

[canchita]

I thought I'd add my 0.02, sorry all. Be sure to check the facts though, I doubt that I could be considered a source.

First of all, it's interesting to know that dogs and wolves can be bred with viable offspring. The only way the offspring can reproduce is if they are members of the same species. Horse + donkey = mule (sterile), lion + tiger = lyger (sterile). Realistically, a dane and a chihuahua can't mate, but if they could, the offpring would be fertile.

Secondly, it is estimated that humans first domesticated the canine about 60,000 years ago. Dogs were bred both for a function (like the bloodhound it's acute sense of smell) or appearance (remember the little dog- Chinese crested-in How to Lose a Guy in 10 days?). Some were bred for a purpose, then for appearance. Whatever the reason, the matings occurred as the result of artificial selection. Man selected the traits he wanted his dog to have. He bred what he thought was best for form and function generation after generation to produce what he was looking for.

[Dog behavior is still very reminiscent of his ancestor, the wolf. (Regardless of genetics, most people generally consider the wolf and the dog as the different species due to heritage). Examples include the strong bond a dog establishes with his owner and master and the pack mentality, which applies to both humans and other dogs.]

This is my point: If all that stands between the dog and the wolf is the man who domesticated him, isn't the influence of man possibly greater than that of genetics? Nurture tamed the wolf into the dog. It made the killer into the dog and can make the dog into a killer.

Dogs aren't capable of true reason, nor are they capable of evil. Every action from a dog can be predicted. If a dog is unpredictable (which includes biting) that unpreditability is the result of outside influences on its life.

That's my 0.02.

[eSPO]

http://www.fataldogattacks.com/ Rachael here is some more stuff for you. I think you will find the statistics found by clicking on the bottom of the first page interesting.

[glassjaw_gurlie]

everyone thank you so much!!!

You have no idea how much everyone's oppinions have helped me.

This project that I am doing is worth 1,000 points and I need all the info I can get (thanks for the sites JOE and dav :) ) If anyone knows of anymore web sites or even stories they can tell me, i would be way happy to hear them.

I only have 3 more weeks to get this project done, so I will let you know how it go's.

Thanks again!!!

ps:KEEP THE INFO COMIN!

[eSPO]

Since the San Francisco incident will probably come up. It will help for you to know the facts. Bane, the dog who was involved had a grandsire named Donte del Jardin Canario, a son of Tonio and Princesa, all Canary dogs. The other side of the pedigree has no verifiable link to the Canary Islands. This dog was anything but a Presa. It was a mixed breed. This didn`t ,necessarily , contribute to the incident. It is common knowledge that these dogs were non social, non trained dogs who had killed for food, been tied at a stake for days on end, and had been abused.
http://bessie.tv/sites/pedigree/pedigree.asp?siteid=256&description=Bane&x=11&y=14

[glassjaw_gurlie]

I will look through older posts and find more info. thanks for your help everyone! (mom says thanks joe) :ok: