Hey people, lets play a little game!

[Dana PR]

Due to the fact I see more and more people label dogs as bad dogs or dogs with bad temperments just from what they read on the board I thought we could play a little game! I will set up the situation and you can all give your thought about the dog by what I say! Everything I say is true and has transpired within the last yr. or so. I got a call from a gal I know who purchased a puppy American Bulldog as a guard dog. They took her to puppy class, socilized her with people and other dogs. Everything was going well until about 8 mo. into it they came home to find dog "Ema", chewing on one of there favorite baby goats. She had taken the head clean off. Ema then became very aggressive with all the other livestock through the fences. They no longer could control her around the animals and thats when I got the call. They labeled her as out of control and a livestock killer! I took her in as a rescue to save her from being destroyed. I did some testing and re-homed her again. I placed her with a gal who thought she just had to have her. Everything started out great then I got the dreaded call 6 mo. into it. Ema is out of control! She said she couldn't walk her on a leash without getting drug down the street, she is fence aggressive, she wants to kill our livestock and she just attacked our new puppy and drew blood! Again I go to Ema's rescue and I have had her back for two days now!

OK it's you turn, what do you think? Does Ema have a bad temperment? Do you think she could be around other dogs again or even play with them? Do you think she could be around livestock without attacking? :confused:

[SCreilly]

How old is she now? Is she a Standard or Johnson? What were the parents like and did they "work"? If either did, what at? Why was a performance bitch with possibly a high prey drive allowed to be around small animals unattended? They came home to find the bitch already engaged. Were they made aware of the breeds strengths and ability? Even my limited knowledge tells me that this particular bitch MIGHT have been too much for both of the owners. At this stage she also MIGHT have been let go for too long. As far as bad temperment I would guess no. She is just a tough little girl. As far as other animals, I would guess that she is probably unsafe around other animals. Just my thoughts, not my expertise.

[slamm]

She is a normal, rough bulldog and needs someone who can provide rough outlets for her enthusiasm to be a bulldog and/or someone who will put such a handle on her (training) that she can be controlled more. Good bulldog type dogs need a very alpha leader and my guess is neither of Ema's owners were that. The pulling her around on walks is just a bad manners thing, her problems have nothing to do with bad temperament. These people just didn't know what a real bulldog would be like to raise. They probably wanted a bulldog that acted like a black lab. Bulldogs (American and Spanish), heck most dogs in general, like to kill things, and they really start to experiment with their killing powers way before the age of 1 and will continue playing with these powers until they get broke of it. If the dog is a hunting dog for instance this would be encouraged, if the dog lived in an apartment this would not. Guess which dog will/would have a more fun life. I have lived on a farm for most of my life and have had several different breeds on the farm from bulldogs to curr dogs (catahoulas and blackmouth currs and crossing these to pits) to St. Bernards to rotts to Pyrenees and now presas. And one thing was/is always the same, they all wanted to kill things.......cattle, chickens, sheep, horses and each other, at times. My brother had a male Pyrenees named Max that killed two lambs around the age of 8 months and ate most of both of them. Funny thing about this dog was as he got older he was the most protective of "his" sheep, I have heard, this is because he viewed them as food and just decided to not kill them anymore (I don't know if it is true but it seems logical). It didn't matter if a foreign human or animal tried to touch one of his sheep they were going to get wrecked and he didn't bluff.
Bulldog types just like to fight, period. If you own a bulldog type dog that doesn't like to fight, I don't think you own a bulldog you own something else, a shell. If someone won't start a fight for them, they will jack around with whatever is available (another dog, a cow, a sheep, a pig or a goat) to get a fight started, why, because they love to fight. They don't fight out of anger, they just fight because it's fun or thrilling to them. I have watched many a litter of pups pushing each other to bite a big ole' mama cow for the first time, it's like watching teenage boys egging each other to jump off a bridge into a river or some other brilliant idea. Bulldog types and other dogs bred for rough jobs (catahoulas and blackmouth currs) need that work to stay sane and not lose their minds, or they will make-up jobs to entertain themselves. It's like taking a hot bred thoroughbred and trying to make a slow, gentle, trail horse for the handicapped, as a two year old. You just can't do it. And if you can, you either, don't have a hot bred thoroughbred or you are an extremely good trainer.

My $3.54,

Sam

[eSPO]

It seems like another case of an initial owner who got in over their head." Oh, look at the cute Bulldog, I want one " the owner brings a very nice, drivey dog home and fails to train or socialize. The owner never takes control of the dog, allowing it to jump up on people, pull on walks,
"wow this dog really pulls, isn`t it strong". The dog comes from a good line and is very typical temperment.. A nice Prey driven dog that would be very easy to train with some good motivational training. They take her to classes and give up because the dog will sit, stay, and down, for a treat. The owners never correct Ema , prong collars are cruel, and it is fun getting pulled around the neighborhood, it shows everyone how strong she is . One day Ema is left alone with some goats, a goat gets scared , runs, and the dogs natural prey drive (desire to chase and kill) kicks in and pretty soon the little goat is in the mouth of Emma and being shaken violently. The Goat dies and the Bulldog continues to chew on it for a while.
Shock ! Gasp ! our dog is a "killer", we need to get rid of this mean dog!
They get rid of the mean dog, who now has experienced a kill of a small goat. Really a pretty good dog, just "too much" for them. At eight months Ema is rehomed. All goes well with the new owners, they never put any obedience on the dog and notice, as she matures, she is becoming more territorial and aggressive. They, kind of, like that , they feel safe with a good dog around. The dog has had not ever had any real socialiization or obedience training and at 14 months it seems uncontrollable. "We can`t handle this dog, she`s got problems"
OK it's you turn, what do you think? Does 1) Ema have a bad temperment? 2) Do you think she could be around other dogs again or even play with them? 3) Do you think she could be around livestock without attacking

1 . No, Emma has a classic Bulldog temperment
2 . Yes, With proper training she could be around other dogs
3. Yes, With proper training she could be around livestock

This story happens every day in the world of the Presa. People who have not owned a dominant breed get them because they look "cool"
and have no idea how to raise them. Breeders selling dogs to people they
dont screen is a part of the problem, Breeders who do not give their owners advice and help are part of the problem. "'you breath air and have money, youll be a good owner ,give me your credit card, Ill ship it . Talk to you later. Thanks for your business. Good luck". (You`ll need it)

[josebrwn]

Ema sound like a great dog, from the little I've heard. I'm sorry the second owner was a disappointment. I'm sure six months with zero training did not help things for Ema.

My Grandpa, Dad's side, owned an auto-wrecking yard. He kept junk yard dogs, and knew how to make them mean. He had a collie mix who was the sweetest thing you ever met as a pup, six months later it wanted to kill me. My Grandpa thought nothing of using these dogs for target practice. They had their place, that was about it. I loved my Grandpa. He was a 6 foot 2 inch Texan, a dead ringer for Errol Flynn, a fighter, lover, businessman, hard drinker, and a hard man. My dad had a GSD bitch he couldn't handle, and sent her to my Grandpa. One night she got into the barn and mauled a sow. I think she was one of the best dogs I've ever known, but my Grandpa shot her, just like that.

My Grandpa, Mom's side, had a wolf/shepherd bitch, 120 lbs. or so, named Edda. Edda used to love go out hunting by herself, and come home regularly with porcupine quills in her mouth or carrying a skunk she'd killed. I'd say Edda could kill just about anything she felt like killing. She never once bothered the livestock. If she had, he'd have shot her. Just like that.

These were both great dogs. One just acquired a bad habit. I miss em both.

[Dana PR]

Well, here is the update with pics!. These pics were taken 48 hrs after I got her back. No joke, it took about two minutes to get her walking on a loose leash, downing, sitting, and paying total attention to me. She remembered it from her last visit here and her puppy class. She played so hard with my other dogs she had to lay down and rest. She can go in with our sheep and stand quitly with no leash or collar, while they paw at her. She comes when called from across the pasture! She is sweet intelligent and has one of the most stable temperments I have ever seen on a dog considering what she has gone through. She is a normal AB like slamm said and needs an alfa handler. She also need room to run and play and be a dog. The last gal that had her has two Presa's but ended up with a shoulder injury so Ema never got out of her 10x10 pen. These dog has been labeled as a bad dog because of situations humans have put her in. It all boil down to [a]behavior modification and a proper enviroment![/b]
There is not way to judge a dogs temperment by what you read on a board so I wish the Dogo people would stop doing it!

http://bessie.tv/images/jpg/elpresa/espo/dana1.jpg

http://bessie.tv/images/jpg/elpresa/espo/dana2.jpg

http://bessie.tv/images/jpg/elpresa/espo/dana3.jpg

[eSPO]

Dana, great job ! ! I dont think I would generalize and say "the Dogo People" There are Dogo people that are pretty cool. You are speaking of the few same old dolts saying the same old things, just like an old drunk bunched up in the gutter muttering the same old sentence, over and over.

[Dana PR]

Oops, you right Dave. I meant one person who tends to read this board, take info off it and talk about bad temperments! My bad! :oops: