Hey Butch

[eSPO]

Butch , can you explain the difference between a Mastiff breed and a herding breed regarding training for personal protection ? What are the different approaches and why ? Generally speaking , will Mastiiffs ever compete in Shutzhund at the higher levels ? Many people claim a Shutzhund dog is just a sport dog and will fold when fit hits the shan.

[ButchCappel]

One of the more popular questions I've seen actually.
The difference between the Mastiffs and Herders?
Along with sight hound these groups have the longest history of working with man for a specific function. This may explain their handler sensitivty & attentiveness.

Due to the different functions they have been bred for they each bring a slightly diferent attitude to protection work. Herders have dominated livestock and their prey drive makes them go into a fray with speed and little survival concern. A lot of energy and not as much intensity, you could say.

At the same time Mastiffs were in the Roman armies gutting or being gutted. This probably led to a much more serious attitude about work!
This use of defense drive gives our Mastiffs much more intensity in a fight, but they may be slower to start because they are literally considering the "survival" side of the battle. This trait is often interpreted as lack of courage or the new phrase de jour "weak nerve".

The only other main difference I see is the maturity time. It just takes a Mastiff longer to grow up, fact of nature , and no way to hurry it along. If you have a herder start PP training at 8 months, Mastiff, 16 months (general guidelines)

Will one ever excell at ScH? Danes have! And the ScH requirements today are not that demanding, so they (or a Presa) certainly could again.

As to the last question about ScH dogs being, well, not so good? To me a ScH dog is just a dog that has been asked by a human to do this particular task. But it is still a dog, like us it may be more or less athletic than some, more or less confidant than others, but it is still a dog. If it can do ScH (relatively demanding) it should be able to do a lot of other things if the "human" has the skills to teach it, but I probably put more importance on the trainer than a vast majority of the younger trainers coming up.
But Mich, the Dane I am most pictured with, did ScH, kennel club CD, and flushed & retrieved pheasant for me, so I may have a few more expectations than most.