hip certification

[pacecar]

out of , is it fair to say about 1-2 hundred presa pups bought by UPPCC members,we recieved copies of the sire & dam"s hip report upon or before delivery of the pup {duh} maybe we should also get a picture of the pups feeding on its mother , so we can be sure of who the dam really is???? as a whole{UPPCC} and as one {member}we must TRUST US. amen{on paper too}

[presagirls]

So what does that mean? Are the parents' OFA'd or pennhipped?

[pacecar]

so do you want copies sent to you

[JSF13]

A simple question was asked.A simple answer would suffice.It should not be difficult to provide.As a member of the UPPCC I don't see a problem with anyone asking this question of any of our breeders,prospective buyer or otherwise.

out of , is it fair to say about 1-2 hundred presa pups bought by UPPCC members,we recieved copies of the sire & dam"s hip report upon or before delivery of the pup {duh}

Pacecar,no offence intended but I didn't quite catch the meaning of this either.

[AmericanC]

I believe pacecar answered the question! He has untill the end of the year to get his dogs done, if he hasn't done them already! I heared that question by a non-member lots of times by Cathy Thomas :mad: . Do your home work JSF13. :(

[JSF13]

I guess you guys speak the same language,LOL.

[azespo42]

I think it is a valid question, as are questions regarding pedgree,temperment and other health related issues.

[AmericanC]

Maybe by e-mail? :rolleyes:

[AmericanC]

Why would members jump on the back of a member of our club, siding with a non-member? I think this is a valid question! I believe he answered the question by saying. pacecar
0 paws out of 5



Age:45
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Joined: 09 Mar 2003
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Posted: Tue Mar 18, 2003 4:30 am Post subject:

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"so do you want copies sent to you"

[presagirls]

Well, since this person advertised a litter on a "public" board I thought it was appropriate to ask if the hips were certified at a MINIMUM; and preferably PRIOR to breeding. All other boards that allow advertising of puppies MUST list hip certification, temperament testing, titles, achievements, etc....This has nothing to do with "them against us" it has to do with bettering the breed and if a prospective customer doesn't know to ask this they sure better get educated!

[azespo42]

Nobody is jumping on anybody, I have talked to John and found him to be one of the most knowledgable and experienced Presa people around.
He has been involved with the breed for a long time,more than most.
I am glad that I had the opportunity to talk to him and look forward to more conversation. I look forward to a time when the question can be answered by all breeders with an emphatic "yes" ! ! This board does not have that policy in place. People who advertise litters here should expect to answer any question,about their litter. This is a new board and as The UPPCC code of ethics kick in we may adopt such a policy.

[JSF13]

Tom as you seem to have elected yourself as the spokesman for Pacecar, if you understand this answer perhaps you could explain it to me.If not perhaps Pacecar himself can answer?I'll repeat it again.


"out of , is it fair to say about 1-2 hundred presa pups bought by UPPCC members,we recieved copies of the sire & dam"s hip report upon or before delivery of the pup {duh}"

I'm sorry but I have absolutely no idea what 100 to 200 presa pups are being referred to here and what relationship they have to the pups being advertised.If this is somehow meant to be the answer to the question as to whether the parents of Pacecar's pups have been OFA'd or PENNhipped perhaps it could be re-stated more simply as either a yes or no?

[presagirls]

Sorry guys this:

"found him to be one of the most knowledgable and experienced Presa people around.
He has been involved with the breed for a long time,more than most. "

is even more disturbing if he is knowingly breeding without checking hips. I guess we won't even move on to temperament testing :eek:

[pacecar]

hi presagirls, im pacecar {my name is John, }lets KIS {keep it simple} if you were a prospective coustmer {quote} the appropriate {quote} way would of been by e-mail just as everyone else would of done , No but you like to post, i sent you a privite e- mail and you never responded .So lets drop it ,its going too far and your not a prospective buyer anyway . your a label shopper?not performance . we also have the most ICA titles of any presa"s and not one of the ICA people or presa people ever asked THE FIRST QUESTION are they ofa . or pennhip . Something for thought,a presa must first be a presa first,it must be able to work,run,jump,not tire,etc. it should also fall within the standards of the conformation of the breed before you can show it off,god bless you if you start backwards .I see lots of people who bragg with there big 150-160 lbs. presas , and there very proud of them{lol}i also see people having liters with females 14 months or younger saying that there OFAed ? maybe im wrong but i thought in large breeds they should be close to 2years old for a proper reading anyway no harm done FRIENDLY REGUARDS JOHN see ya at duh show

[pacecar]

presagrils, i visited your www very nice ,i see you make the right choices in just about everything you do and spend lots of $$$ keeping your image so why are you so interested in me when you deal with one of the best {ALEX }no disrespect but your coming off the wrong way and i bet your really nice and im looking foward to meeting you someday and starting fresh friendly reguards JOHN

[pacecar]

jsf13 , butt out and don"t try to jump on me on the board, if you have something to say e-mail me . There are more important things to do with your time and postings to better our club. By the way are you interested in a pup ? if not CHANGE THE TOPIC friendly reguards John

[pacecar]

hi David, sorry if i caused a problem by not answering the question , i didn"t think it would go this far. I thought if someone wanted info on the pups they would of contacted me by e-mail , so if you could please take down the pictures so no further problems can take place thanks John ps for all those still in question the answer is yes , what else could they be thinking
[4 presa"s from Curto ,2 from barnacanbull ,2 from ordepafios, 2 from gran tenerife , 1 from rich kennels,1 from the late jan bracke ] thanks again david, talk to you soon John

[presagirls]

John, I don't recall any email from you, sorry if I didn't answer it. My main reason for the questions is I believe that if this breed is going to be bred the only way to justify it is to attempt to better the breed. We have more than enough BYB!!! Again, if any breeder advertises pups on a public board they better be prepared to answer questions (as on any board). By not checking hips prior to breeding is simply being a BYB, IMO. How can you possibly say you are trying to better the breed when you have no idea what shape the parent's hips are? Also, I am not trying to uphold any image, I could give a rat's a$$ what people think of me; I simply enjoy working with my dogs and believe in bettering the breed. Also, curious

"we also have the most ICA titles of any presa"s"

what exactly is a ICA title? I am sure you will find buyers for your pups; I know I had to turn down about 75% of the people that called me for my litter.

[JSF13]

PC as Cathy says,if you post pups for sale on a public message board you better be prepared to answer at least the most basic of questions.If you can't stand the heat .... :cool:

[AmericanC]

Then a lot of questions should be asked and answered about board members and members of the club? Starting with,do all board members even own a Presa Canario? You would think so?

[azespo42]

Time to hand out the dog poop awards and close this before it degenerates any further.

Tom, you get three scoops of poop, you are much too defensive and have not contributed anything constructive,or meaningful to this conversation.

Cathy, while we all realize the importance of hip testing and health screening when the only posts that you ever post here are questioning people with litters on the ground and ASSUMING things that you are totally ignorant about . We all know that you have pups on the ground and
people could assume that you are only here to protect your territory.
I have heard you speak with conviction of things that you know zero about. Cathy you get two scoops of poop.

John, your a good man Charlie Brown, it is a shame that your welcome here was a little rocky. I have seen pictues of your dogs and Tyrone has walked me through the pedigrees , I appreciate the hard work that you guys are doing .You ae definately breeding with a goal ! I think the pictures should stay but if you will e-mail me a private request I will pull them down. You have some fine dogs and I am sure that you are doing the right thing by them. I look forward to meeting you and the dogs in September. I hope that you will allow the pictures to stay up.

Joef , thank you for your input, you are always a voice of logic and moderation, for those of you who wish to know Joef does not own a Presa, he opted to rescue a dog in need instead of taking on a Presa Canario, his compassion for another breed and denying himself what he really wanted is the only reason he does not own a Presa today. Joe is on the UPPCC board of directors and his opinion and input carry much weight .

The question has been asked and answered,this thread is now closed.