Have the two ever competed?

[Jennifer089]

Okay, I'm fairly new to this, so forgive me if I'm "beating a dead horse" but I have a question.

Have the dogs that are currently a part of the UPPCC ever competed or participated in any sort of competition with the dogs of the Dogo Canario folks? And, if so, what types of events have they competed in and how do they fare against one another? What have been the results?

Thanks in advance,

Jennifer

[Steve]

TOR Rules! World Champion. Spanish Champion. American Champion and PR CHamp.

No UPPCC Dog has come close. And never will since they can not be shown FCI. While the UKC is second largest in USA, it Is NOTHING, compared to FCI.

[azespo42]

If you want to know some US history, read the Gripper. It's all on-line through early 01.

http://www.showstopperkennels.com/nppcc.htm

You'll find out last time there was an open competition our dogs walked away with everything:

best working dog
only perfect score
highest TT rating
best adult dog

http://www.showstopperkennels.com/gripper/gripper19.htm
http://www.showstopperkennels.com/gripper/gripper17.htm

I believe last year in conformation BCK Zena got best female (of breed) at Cherry Blossom over a DCCA dog and Tom`s ( EastCoast Presa Canario) Marco de Irema Curto beats out Roque (Hooligans) every time. . I hear AKCM
( Mark Clemens, A Kennel Called Mango ) dogs are doing pretty well too
against the DCCA competitors (Spanish "Champion" and also, (IABCA Best in Breed, AKC/ARBA Best in Show)

http://pub11.ezboard.com/felpresacommunityshows.showMessage?topicID=38.topi c

These are just my recollections, maybe Tom or Jack Pickel or Mark Clemens can clarify.

Multiple Digi Digi dogs are winning in hog catching

http://pub11.ezboard.com/felpresacommunitypresacanariogeneralforum.showMess age?topicID=2444.topic


and I even hear we got a 100 lb. weight puller holding the current breed record ;)

Domination of the NPPCC/ UPPCC dogs in the ring started way back with Showstoppers Medusa and continues to this day. The nice thing is that these are not dogs that fail courage tests, hold their tails between their legs, or get run off when confronted. We all know what a drag that must be.

[josebrwn]

I'm with Dieter Fleig on this one, the criteria for judging a dog must be

1. Health

2. Intelligence

3. Temperament

4. Beauty

In that order!

Everything that's wrong in the world of dogs comes back to folks who have got this simple list of critera out of order, in some cases turning it right on its head. That's what brings show dog people to breed fear-biting dysplastics to entropians, and working dog folks to breed animals so savage they're a danger even to their owners. I've seen dogs of both types and it's a sad thing.

The UKC is about the Total Dog. This isn't lip service. A UKC Total Dog has earned recognition in these four cornerstones by achieving championship status in at least four areas, and three must be performance. I met a UKC Total Dog this weekend, Penina, who got a five page write-up in Bloodlines and is owned by the National UKC Breed Club President. We competed head to head in weight pull (we won!) and I can tell you Penina is a for-real Total Dog, holding championships in Conformation, Obedience, Agility, and Weight Pull.

That is the criteria to judge what is good in a dog; not one of these things but all of them. And certainly, not the least important of them all.

This is why we chose the UKC, and why they chose us. We are about the Total Dog. This is the whole reason we exist, to improve our breed, period. We have done a lot in the past and made a few mistakes but we know our course and have a great group of people together with the one goal of making our Presas into Total Dogs.

The UKC was established 105 years ago. They register over a quarter million dogs a year. They aren't just the second largest registry in the USA, or the registry of the Total Dog, they are a working registry, with over 10,000 events annually, and 60% of them are working events. Coonhound events alone draw 20,000 participants annually.

The FCI by contrast has no presence and no events whatsoever within the United States. Obviously they have no performance events. If you care at all about Health, Intelligence, or Temperament, and you live in the Western Hemisphere, the FCI is the last thing you need to be thinking about.

But we don't discriminate. There's a two-inch stack of new pedigrees litter registrations and membership applications sitting on my desk waiting to go to the UKC and I see a growing number of FCI eligible dogs from Leon Penate, Barnacan Bull, Ordepafios, Honto Bull, Alacant Bull, Irema Curto, even Gran Tenerife. We don't discriminate. Please join us and come to the specialty at Purina Farms, Sept. 14-18.

http://www.ukcpresa.com

[azespo42]

What a great post ! ! As a sidenote it is nice to see that the Pedigree Database now contains over one thousand dogs and is a great research tool : http://bessie.tv/sites/pedigree/

We owe you a debt of gratitude for all of the time and effort that you have put into this project. The database will continue to grow and I am looking forward to seeing it contain dogs from all over the world !

[AmericanC]

Marco beat Rogue 3 times in the last Cherry Blossom. Realy wasn't hard considering the quality of the 2 dogs. ;)

[LuvMyPresas]

Great job Tom and Marco.! He sure is beautiful :oops: I mean handsome! :) But he wouldn't be where he is at without " Curto" and a very devoted owner. Please keep us up to date on Marcos progress. I know there is more to come. :D

[BCK Presa]

BCK Zena (PRESA CANARIO) won Best Female Presa Canario ( winners bitch) in both shows at the Cherry Blossom 2002 , She competed against dogo canario's and other Presa Canario's. She will be at the Cherry Blossom 2003 with hope of repeating . Zena is showing even better now then last year....
http://www.hpphoto.com/servlet/LinkPhoto?GUID=74d053ba-58e7-4393-7b7c-8b282aaa1068&size=lg

[BCK Presa]

Fred, you do not have to go to the dogo board and ask them to confirm Zena's success at the Cherry Blossom Show. I have no reason to lie about the achievements of our dogs. Go to ARBA website if you need to confirm the facts.....Thanks Jack...... :D :D :D :D

[Jennifer089]

Jack,

I just wanted to say that I *love* Zena. She is absolutely beautiful. Her picture is one that I keep on my desktop at all times. She is awesome.

Jennifer:)

[JSF13]

Here is the ARBA link for 2002

http://www.arba.org/2002ShowResults.htm

[AmericanC]

F.C.I judges. Believe me they knew what to look for when judging Presa Canario. :)

[BCK Presa]

Jennifer, thank you for your kind words. ;)

[Fred]

It wasn't that I went there to confirm the dogs' acomplishments, I don't think you guys would have posted false information that could easily be checked. I went there to get "their" side of the story as to how this could happen. It would be impossible for you or Tommy to give the other side of the story.
If Marco does have an incorrect topline as was stated, but placed ahead of a dog with a correct topline as was also stated, I think that is an interesting point that might not have come up here as readily. It makes you wonder, though. I have never been a fan of the ascending topline "look" and if a judge or judges start to prefer this look in the Presa, it seems that they could sway what people are breeding for as was mentioned in another topic.
Showing has always been subjective and for this reason is why people choose to show or not show under certain judges. You and Tommy are to be congratulated on your dogs no matter who the judge was. It's not like Cherry Blossom is a dog show at the county fair.

Fred

[azespo42]

The standard is the standard, and the judges interpretation is all that matters on any given day. The ascending topline and all other facets of the standard can be read, and interpreted ,with some degree of variation by all judges who read it, When a dog is consistantly judged to be closer to the standard by various judges we can know with some certainty that
he is closer to the standard. There is no need for excuses. A dog may be superior to another dog in one area , but they are judging the entire dog.

[AmericanC]

My last post on this, Fred there were "3" FCI judges that placed Marco above Rogue. About the top-line? Don't believe one story neither so why did you bring it up here :rolleyes: ?

[Fred]

Exactly, Dave. You could be showing clones and one will place above the other for one reason or another depending on the judge. It could just be the attitude of that dog on that day, or the handling. Either way, it's who walks away with the ribbon.

Fred

[AmericanC]

Correct me if I'm wrong but I believe the Cherry Blossom show is the largest Rare Breed show in the U.S. :ok:

[azespo42]

Yes Fred, that is exactly what I meant to say. Three different judges,moods, etc and the same winner ! ! (Marco ) :D I guess I prefer more quantifiable events. Agility has time to accomplish a task, Weight Pull has a certain weight and procedure,obedience has directives and appropriate responses. Protection has behavior that is easily evaluated.
The show ring is much more subjective and prone to politics and excuses.At any rate I will support our members in our club that persue the ring thing and all other UKC sanctioned events. My cup of tea may not taste the same as someone elses but I can appreciate their enjoyment of it.

[AmericanC]

He came in second in open males.

[azespo42]

http://members.cox.net/efpo322/zenabrd

The more that I see her the more I like her !! BCK Zena Rocks ! !
I could not find her pedigree on the database ! Who is Sire and Dam ?

[BCK Presa]

It's RBL BCK Zena, she is out of G'Kar , that is an old picture , she is 7 months old in that pic.

[Fred]

The more that I see her the more I like her !! BCK Zena Rocks ! !

Yup!

[azespo42]

Thanks Jack !! I searched Zena, BCK, and a host of others. Here ia a link to her pedigree http://bessie.tv/sites/pedigree/pedigree.asp?pedigreeid=415
She looks to have a great future ,nobody needs to make any excuses for her !! !

[azespo42]

Congrats to Marco de Irema Curto and Tom, it seems as though every time Marco and Roque (Hooligans) meet in the ring Marco puts another win on the board, recently Roque won a Puerto Rico show, This means Marco routinely took the trophy from a nice dog here in the US.