Here we are

[Paolo Consolandi]

Just the 1st post of a large number!
El Presa is back! :rolleyes: ;) :P :) :D :cool:

[azespo42]

It is good to have the El Presa site back. You invited me to help you out with the original El Presa 4 or 5 years ago. Much has happened in the world of the Presa Canario since then. The most significant is the recognition of the Perro de Presa Canario by the UKC. The United Perro de Presa Canario Club was successful in our bid for recognition,. Now registered Presa Canario dogs from all over the country can compete in UKC sanctioned events. The UKC sanctions Weight Pull competitions,
Obedience and (soon) Protection Trials, Agility avents and other activities.
The Presa Canario will be able to participate in Confirmation events in 2004, meanwhile they are training Judges and familiarizing themselves with the breed.
The UKC is reviewing all available standards from the past and will adopt the standard based on this review. The United Perro de Presa Club
(UPPCC) is made up of 14 board of directors. Our board has people who are experienced in Confirmation Shows, Protection Work, Obedience training, and Weight Pull.
The UPPCC is having our first annual Specialty in September of 2003.
We will have a confirmation show, Protection and Weight pull seminars
and it will be the largest gathering of Presa Canario dogs in the country.
We have chosen , the state of the art facility, Purina farms for our first event. We will have an official from the ATTS (American Temperment Test Society) available for Temperment tests. We have invited Manuel Curto Gracia to provide participants with a written critique regarding their dogs,
he has agreed to attend and critique all dogs who have had their hips evaluated. Manuel is the father of the Presa Canario breed (virtually every Presa Canario goes back to his early dogs) In addition to the critique, Manuel has been invited to speak at the Banquet with the help of a translator,his lovely wife, Valeria. We will continue on with the Historic Perro de Presa Canario (in name and color) and leave the Dogo Canario
to its fans.
This alliance became possible by connections made on the original El Presa site ! ! We are hoping that many more positive relationships will
spring from your effort in providing Presa Canario fans all over the world an accurate history of the Perro de Presa Canario . Welcome Back Paolo and El Presa !!

[azespo42]

[Paolo Consolandi]

There is a bad URL...
you should write the URL with http://, anyway the URL is not correct :D

Test:
http://www.elpresa.com/testata.gif

[azespo42]

http://members.cox.net/efpo322/sancar02.jpg
http://members.cox.net/efpo322/sanprofin1.jpg
http://members.cox.net/efpo322/bbkids.jpg

Kewl , I got it ! Thank you. !!

[JSF13]

http://members.cox.net/efpo322/sancar02.jpg

Me too!

[Quinn]

Hello? Remember this? What was the original goal? Are we any closer? Why do we keep loosing valued members....all the time? Is the Presa any safer? Is her legacy any clearer? What does this site truly stand for? Am I more of a member if I post "2000" bullsh*t posts.....or "1" desent & honest opinion???? Would you treat me different if I was "clicked" up? Or from the islands? Why do I have to consistently go into "archives" for something of substance? Thanks to all who are no longer with us. Touch back if you can from time to time. El Presa don't need you....but the Presa certainly does!

[eSPO]

I would rather hear one honest opinion, based on fact then 1000 bullshit posts. Opinions based on facts and truth are interesting. Opinions based once lies , rumor, and wives tails.......just prove ignorance.

[Quinn]

He're for sometime we've been moving fastly away from the Presa and more and more towards character assassinations, petty beefs, insults, grade one nonsense. These things prevent El Presa from being a really great site.

The list of names that have passed thru these gates. Would read as a who's who in the Presa world. Amongst the authentic. From the Canaries, Europe, Canada, Americas & dot's inbetween.

I believe. People long for virtues that they themselves do not personally possess. Virtues like strength of character, courage, nobility, confidence. All of which by the way holds true too the Presa.

However, unfortunanate! Many people gravitate towards the breed as a surrogate. Not only too line there pockets! But also to be close to that which they have so little of. Like the "Baby Pagent" parent. That misplaced her mojo! Poor little child. But in this case poor little Presa.

As moderator. Ask yourself. What are the overwhelming majority "complaining about" and also what are they "asking for"? Use this and be fair!

Becoming a place for Amature hour !

August 31, 2011

[eSPO]

I have seen hundreds of real people come and go. I have spoken to many since they have been gone The rotation is normal. The forum has been here many years before many here knew what a Presa was. Im about the breed, not ego. I am not about letting people exploit the breed here. There is nothing wrong with a good breeder selling outstanding pups for a good price. When people breed just what they happen to have , with no health tests, or obvious defects, with no proven working ability or temperament, they' can consider themselves anything but a "working presa breeder". When people make claims about their qualifications or experience , they should be glad to answer questions.

I am the last person in the world to assasinate anybodys character. I am the least bigoted person that' I know. I have been accused of all kinds of stupid garbage.

The truth is I am one sided and partial to people who are REALLY doing right bye the breed. Not making excuses.

[eSPO]

I have seen hundreds of real people come and go. I have spoken to many since they have been gone The rotation is normal. The forum has been here many years, before many knew what a Presa was. Im about the breed, not ego. I am not about letting people exploit the breed for gain here There is nothing wrong with a good breeder selling outstanding pups for a good price. When people breed just what they happen to have , with no health tests, or with obvious defects, with no proven working ability or temperament, they' can consider themselves anything but a "working presa breeder". When people make claims abouts qualifications or experience , they'll should be glad to answer questions.

I have been accused of showing favoritism the truth is that I do show favoritism to those that are doing the breed right. Those peopled that have a problem with that are unreasonable.

[Quinn]

If you loose HUNDREDS of REAL people. That cannot/should not be considered normal. This statement esp. from the moderator no less say's much about El Presa. You've chosen to align yourself with the line from the "Garden" and understandably thru its history. But are they not more of a relic today? A sentiment of great Presa's from old? Where are they working/testing today? Why did you not preserve this line for the sake of the breed?

Anything Presa is a far from perfect reality. And those whom are trying to produce better. Should NOT have any favor. No favor is given to breeders for doing what they are SUPPOSE to do. This is where you can find separation. From those pure at heart and those who are pretenders. Once favorites come into play. Good judgement is sure to suffer!

True there is nothing wrong with a good breeder selling great pups for a good price. If you do enough research. And seek proper guidance. You will find what you pay for is priceless! Make no mistake about Ego. This monster is ever present. Admit it. Image protection is at it's all time high. And lastly, it doesn't matter how many years this forum has been in business. If you do not preserve your quality. You end up worse than where you began.

[juan a]

no entendo ben pero a gerra sigue ...

[miyamoto]

Quinn both of ur posts were dead on. But as the response indicated, it went on "deaf ears". I know I have not always seen things eye to eye with Dave, and a host of others, but I always saw the debates being for the betterment of the breed. But here lately it seems that attacks r strictly of a personal nature. The breed is suffering. Put urself in the shoes of someone new to the breed and was refered here as a great place to begin their search and u saw and read some of these posts. What would u think?

The Jardin line is what it is, an old line that has been firmly rooted in the history of the breed. I personally have had dogs that go back to that line, and I have had no problems with them for the most part. That being said there r questions in that line as it is with many lines. Especially the older ones.

What's sad about the state state of affairs within this community is the fact that riffs have nothing to do with the breed IMO. When conflicts years ago came up over ideology whether it was the Dogo Presa debate, Penn hip vs x-ray, or which standard was more acceptible, it was all for the improvement of the breed. Regardless of which side u were on. Now that is not the case. It is evident by the the tone of the threads. I think it is so sad when u look and see how many views for a working video post or comments about the work shown, either giving commendations or not. But then u look under these negative threads and there's an overwhelming amount of views.

IMO we all can and must do better.

[eSPO]

I do not care if you are breeding presas from Manuel Curto
I dont care if you breed presas from Cantadiello
I dont care if you breed presas from Dels Pechados
I dont care if you breed presas from Bimbaches
I dont care if you breed presas from J 7
I dont care if you breed presas from Arne
I dont care if you breed presas from Zulu
I dont care if you breed presas from Iron Bull
I dont care if you breed presas from anywhere...

I dont care if you are red
I dont care if your yellow
I dont care if your black
I dont care if your white
I dont care if your brown
I dont care what color you are..

I do care if you are health testing breeding stock
I do care if you are breeding presas that have the correct temperament and able to prove it
I do care if you can provide verifiable pedigree
I do care if your dogs look like presas

Breeders that do will have our support
Breeders that dont, wont.

Its really that easy

[Quinn]

@ miyamoto - Very sharp eyed observations. And putting yourself in the shoes of another is most profound! Esp. that of a newcomer because I am still among them. Wisdom appreciated. Humble, precise, and very much relevant.

@Espo - Make no mistake. I knuckle up for (PPB-Ironbull-Canario Dragon Tree) to the death of me! Understand this! But that does not stop me from reckonizing who's running territory north of the Cantabrian Sea. Along with their umbrella'd Duetschland contemporaries. Even you can agree to this!

The crew in question. "Back Home". They have a solid program growing. Using those before them as a template. Selecting, working, testing. With a geniune desire towards improvement. As you know these things take time. Some patience and due diligence on your part would be wise. Stop playing rent a cop.

I don't know you well but I certainly do not consider you a racist. Maybe alittle loose in the "choppers" but not a racist. And we do not keep score........so

@Espo - "Fairly"! You have done some good here as well. Helped find homes for rescues. etc
El Presa;) Only question that bears some flame is...........Just don't forget where you came from. That's all we ask!

[miyamoto]

Thx Quinn for the compliment. I, like yourself and many others, love this breed. I have now been involved with this breed and forum actively for some years now (since '97). And that's why I brought up the fact that disputes and difference of opinions have always been here and will be here. But most of us remember when they went from about the dogs to personal attacks. The breed suffered because of it in my opinion.

Dave I don't think u will find anyone on this forum that doesn't feel exactly the same way that u say u do. The issue that I have is someone makes assumptions and voices their opinions before checking the facts first. In one case u continue to bring up a particular dog that owner actually had already said there were some questions in his pedigree that he wanted answers to. And correct me if I am wrong but he even had asked u if u were familiar with the holes. Aside from that he has since, on several occasions said that while he had bred him before, that he was no longer part of his program.

Rarely does a breeder start off with the perfect representative of the breed. Believe it or not there is still some trial And error in breeding. Many times what thought was going to be perfect and things don't happen like we may have thought. Dogs, directions, or goals may change. Why would that mean they r any less dedicated or creditable. Just my thoughts.

[eSPO]

Point taken.